| Spirit-Filled / Charismatic The forum for all charismatic churches and movements. |
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23rd April 2007, 08:25 PM
|  | ~POWERHOUSE~
     
 | | Join Date: 25th May 2005 Location: Sunny southern California!
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Reps: 411,359 (power: 425) | | Originally Posted by New_Wineskin  Given the definition of "forgiveness" that most give , it must be because He is unforgiving . Since we are supposed to "forgive" everyone , He obviously is not if anyone goes to Hell . If He forgives , all sin is washed away - there is no longer a record - no punishement would exist .
All of that is based on what I read/hear from people who say that one can forgive someone who doesn't repent or want forgiveness . I don't understand that idea and don't understand how they cannot consider themselves as uiversalists . They seem to have two different definitions of "forgiveness" - one for humans and one for the Lord .
With me - I consider that the Lord sends none to Hell . People make a choice not to be with Him whcih continues afterwards .
Incredibly insightful and right-on post! 
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Tina
aka Faith Mama |
23rd April 2007, 10:30 PM
| | Senior Veteran
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| | Join Date: 21st August 2006 Location: Katy TX
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Reps: 24,498 (power: 34) | | | God made a very intelligent car (you), and gave that car it's own bill of sale (title). You can say "God, I hold the title, but I hold it for you. You own me". If someone messes with God's car, he has something to say about it. Or you can say "I am going to sell this title to someone else, who offered me a whole lot of money for it", and relinquish the title. If the new owner wants to enter it in the next demolition derby, it might hurt God, but He honors his decision, and the title. Poor analogy, I know, but I do think it gets the point across. |
23rd April 2007, 11:24 PM
|  | Life of Trials :)
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| | Join Date: 7th February 2004 Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 28,032
Blessings: 1,496,752
Reps: 172,927,158,589,327,136 (power: 172,927,158,589,365) | | | God hates sin and whoever dies in sin cannot enter into heaven unless...........
To come and think of it.
Everyone who is born in this world will go to hell unless they acknowledge the conviction of the Holy Spirit to be saved.
Relationship restoration requires repentance to God FIRST and come to the offending person for the restoration. Forgiveness have already completed, now the both parties are to focus on restoration. It takes same two to restore a relationship of two people. Not one. Just as God forgave us. But in order to restore our relationship with God from eternal death, we are to repent and acknowledge God and Jesus so that we can have eternal life. God ALREADY FORGAVE..... now He is WAITING for those to REPENT so that the relationship can be RESTORED between Creator and creature.
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God knows all. He has known everything from the beginning. Nothing is a surprise to God, nor does He ever come into possession of new knowledge. Did it ever occur to you that nothing occurs to God?
God gave us conscience. If the truth of God's Word opposes the world's wisdom on a certain issue, you must align yourself with God's Word.
Faith is from God, not from man. Man can do nothing to earn or receive it. Martin Luther
If we take our doctrines into our hearts where they belong, they can cause upheavals of emotion and sleepless nights. This is far better than toying with academic ideas that never touch life. John Piper
Faith is the gift of God – not the result of the persuasion of the evangelist.Jerry Bridges |
23rd April 2007, 11:27 PM
| | Senior Veteran
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| | Join Date: 21st August 2006 Location: Katy TX
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Reps: 24,498 (power: 34) | | Originally Posted by JimfromOhio God hates sin and whoever dies in sin cannot enter into heaven unless...........
To come and think of it.
Everyone who is born in this world will go to hell unless they acknowledge the conviction of the Holy Spirit to be saved.
You are absolutely right, Jim. Perhaps my little analogy lacked even more than I thought when I posted it. Good post! |
24th April 2007, 02:22 AM
|  | Not all who wander are lost
38 
| | Join Date: 29th June 2004
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Reps: 341,899,901,568,365,568 (power: 341,899,901,568,381) | | Originally Posted by New_Wineskin Given the definition of "forgiveness" that most give , it must be because He is unforgiving . Since we are supposed to "forgive" everyone , He obviously is not if anyone goes to Hell . If He forgives , all sin is washed away - there is no longer a record - no punishement would exist .
All of that is based on what I read/hear from people who say that one can forgive someone who doesn't repent or want forgiveness . I don't understand that idea and don't understand how they cannot consider themselves as uiversalists . They seem to have two different definitions of "forgiveness" - one for humans and one for the Lord .
With me - I consider that the Lord sends none to Hell . People make a choice not to be with Him whcih continues afterwards .
You're right, God doesn't forgive everyone. Yet we are still commanded to do so... That is why it is said "vengance is mine says the Lord". It is part of God's being and nature to avenge his people, to avenge injustice etc. He is the judge, not us.
Further, even when a person does forgive, it doesn't mean justice is still not done. For example, lets say a person murdered one of my family members. I could forgive them, and still believe that they should receive just punnishment. Forgiveness means that I no longer seek revenge, and no longer desire evil to come upon them. Justice, however, is not evil.
Also, we are currently living the day of God's goodness and mercy, when his benevolence is shown to all. That day will come to an end. Now those who were enemies of God, he will forgive and reconcile to himself. That day will not last forever. For an example of this.. look at the scripture from Isaiah that Jesus read in the synagogue when he started his ministry. He stopped half way through the scripture. Read the part he didn't quote, which is the part yet to come when the day of the Lord comes again.
In short, God is not bound to forgive, he does so out of his mercy. I am bound to forgive because I have been shown mercy. We are not God, and there are many cases of things which are right for him, but not for us, because of the simple fact of who he is, and who we are not. |
24th April 2007, 02:26 AM
|  | Member
| | Join Date: 22nd April 2007 Location: Washington State
Posts: 112
Blessings: 109,876
Reps: 30,987 (power: 37) | | | YAHVEH does not send anyone to Hell. Everyone living is now making their reservations for Heaven or Hell. YAHVEH is always right in what he allows. So if someone goes to Hell they deserve it. Remember, He is a GOD of balance. |
24th April 2007, 03:04 AM
|  | not a sissy
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| | Join Date: 7th September 2006 Location: Sydney
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Reps: 84,808,050,014,846,512 (power: 84,808,050,014,857) | | Originally Posted by Simon_Templar In short, God is not bound to forgive, he does so out of his mercy. I am bound to forgive because I have been shown mercy. I like this bit...
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'My soul finds rest in God alone: My salvation comes from Him' (ps62:1)
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24th April 2007, 08:12 AM
| | Contributor
| | Join Date: 26th June 2004 Location: Elizabethtown , PA , usa
Posts: 10,975
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Reps: 1,591,362,710,660,643,072 (power: 1,591,362,710,660,662) | | Originally Posted by Simon_Templar You're right, God doesn't forgive everyone. Yet we are still commanded to do so...
Incorrect . *I* am not commanded to do so . Not *your* definition of forgiveness . Now , *you* and whoever you are speaking for may have been commanded to do this or that . That doesn't mean that *I* am . The Lord has yet to command me to do anything He is unwilling to do , Himself . |
24th April 2007, 08:35 AM
|  | Baruch ata hashem Adonai, Hallelujah!
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| | Join Date: 28th October 2004 Location: Scotland
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Reps: 796,077,645,793,119,360 (power: 796,077,645,793,144) | | Originally Posted by New_Wineskin Incorrect . *I* am not commanded to do so . Not *your* definition of forgiveness . Now , *you* and whoever you are speaking for may have been commanded to do this or that . That doesn't mean that *I* am . The Lord has yet to command me to do anything He is unwilling to do , Himself .
Very true. Jesus himself criticised the pharisees for expecting people to do what they said instead of doing what they did.
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From the lone shieling of the misty island
Mountains divide us, and the waste of seas;
Yet still the blood is strong, the heart is Highland,
And we, in dreams, behold the Hebrides.
Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says (James 1:22) |
24th April 2007, 08:56 AM
|  | Senior Contributor
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| | Join Date: 12th December 2005 Location: US
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Reps: 280,772,121,099,737,952 (power: 280,772,121,099,759) | | | I have a question about this subject.
Say a person was never raised in Christian atmospher. The town they grew up in was mostly Muslim, and because of this, the parents thought any religion was a cult. This person knows of God, and believes in God, but was never taught about the salvation of Jesus.
Now this same person is a grown adult. Yes, he has heard about the word of God, and even now has heard about Jesus. But he never really looks into it.
This same person gets diagnosed with a terminal disease and given just a few years to live. They ask a friend what is the secret of getting to Heaven. Instead of the friend telling him about Jesus, they decided to take him to church that Sunday and have him ask the preacher. But Sunday never comes for this person. There is a horrible car accident the Friday before, and this person dies. What happens to him? He was ready to be told. He was a wonderful person. Never did or said anything to hurt another soul. Worked hard. He wanted to know. He wanted to learn, but his life was cut short before he had that chance. Do you think God would have him go to Hell? I can't imagaine that he would. This person lived a good life. He wasn't a bad person. In fact, he was the most wonderful person in this world. If anyone should have to go to hell, it should be the person who didn't answer his question to begin with. It should be me.
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Isaiah 41:10
Fear not, for I am with you; be not dismayed, for I am your God; I will strengthen you, I will help you, I will uphold you with my righteous right hand.
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