Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
Or from one of those creationist groups that treat the human population like an exponential equation and pretend thats how it worked in real life?
Dodd, quoted in Clark's commentary (p.59)... also cited in Notes on Genesis Walter Maier, chapter 2, note 42.
I guess as a fundamentist YEC, I can't reference anything outside the Bible while other "professing Christians" can slaughter the Word of God with everything BUT biblical references??????
There is enough time in the chronology for the flood to have occurred before the beginnings of civilizations in Egypt. The 6,000-10,000 year time frame allows for that.
Most professional YEC organizations I've seen peg the flood around 4000-4500 years ago. Using their estimates, there is not enough time.
And why the 6k-10k year range? Where does this 4000 year discrepancy come from?
__________________ Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution
The problem is, evidence says a different view on population growth, but thats often ignored for a nice false math version of population growth, that fits with what is needed.
The question is not whether it Can work but whether it Did happen.
The fact that a nice exponential equation can make it all work, is much different than whether it happend like that. So is there any evidence to back it up, or is it just a guess, with no backing?
Just like the flood. It could have happend, but evidence suggests that it didnt.
Could and Did are two different things.
Originally Posted by Malaka
Dodd, quoted in Clark's commentary (p.59)... also cited in Notes on Genesis Walter Maier, chapter 2, note 42.
I guess as a fundamentist YEC, I can't reference anything outside the Bible while other "professing Christians" can slaughter the Word of God with everything BUT biblical references??????
So how long would it take for Egypt, India, Mesopotamia, and China to have regained populations large enough to support a well developed culture? Were these people also migrating into Europe, Africa, Australia, and the Americas at the same time or did they wait for these other cultures to get on their feet before they expanded there?
Oh, and did women ever die during childbirth back then or is that a more recent development? Childhood diseases anyone? As of the 19th century infant mortality rates were around 25% (and I would assume it to be higher 4,000 years ago). Is that figured into your "estimated population"?
Do you want the "exact" numbers of years from the global flood to the dispersal of people at the tower of Babel, or is a quick estimate good enough for you????
about 200 years passed from the flood to the tower of Babel.
But before the tower of Babel...
The Bible tells us that the descendents of Japeth seemed to have gone north (Caspian Sea, Black Sea, Asia Minor, and Europe (?)), the descendants of Ham went wouth and wouthwest (Egypt, Africa, eastern Med, and Arabia), and the descendants of Shem settled in Mesopotamia, Arabia, and Persia)
I hope that helps in your understanding....
I don't know the birth statistics for the BCE time frame.... but I am certain that everyone that was born, died at some time except Elijah.
The problem is, evidence says a different view on population growth, but thats often ignored for a nice false math version of population growth, that fits with what is needed.
The question is not whether it Can work but whether it Did happen.
The fact that a nice exponential equation can make it all work, is much different than whether it happend like that. So is there any evidence to back it up, or is it just a guess, with no backing?
Just like the flood. It could have happend, but evidence suggests that it didnt.
Could and Did are two different things.
Well, since the population of the earth is in the billions today, I think the sons of Noah were successful in replentishing the earth. You're here... that should be enough evidence that the world was repopulated.
Oh, and did women ever die during childbirth back then or is that a more recent development?
Did a little search. According to this site "In the worst 19th century maternity hospitals the natural death rate from childbirth was 9-10%". Seeing as there were no hospitals (even bad ones) before, during, or anything close to shortly after the flood, I would expect this number to be higher as well. So was mother mortality figured into these calculations? Did they figure that Eve might have died after ~12 births?
You cannot approach ancient population growth as if it were the 1980's, you have to look back a lot farther in order to appreciate what they could have accomplished.
__________________
"Creationists are going to distort whatever arguments come up.... Archaeopteryx is half reptile and half bird any way you cut the deck, and so it is a Rosetta stone for evolution, whether it is related to dinosaurs or not. These creationists are confusing an argument about minor details of evolution with the indisputable fact of evolution."
-Dr. Alan Feduccia, in an interview with Discover magazine
So, tell me one thing, is your number of around 32,000 based on a guess, or actual physical evidence?
And yes, taking 2 people and then making them reproduce exponentially is still just a guess, as it would need to be backed up by some evidence to be more than that.
Can you show me the evidence that Should show up if its true?
Im also curious, when do you say the flood is, as your idea apparently differs with places like AIG.
Originally Posted by Malaka
Well, since the population of the earth is in the billions today, I think the sons of Noah were successful in replentishing the earth. You're here... that should be enough evidence that the world was repopulated.
Do you want the "exact" numbers of years from the global flood to the dispersal of people at the tower of Babel, or is a quick estimate good enough for you????
about 200 years passed from the flood to the tower of Babel.
So in 200 years there was a large enough population (despite deaths during childbirth and infancy) to provide diverse populations for all of the ancient cultures mentioned in this thread and still populate areas that had not yet developed civilization?
There is enough time in the chronology for the flood to have occurred before the beginnings of civilizations in Egypt. The 6,000-10,000 year time frame allows for that.
So, did all of Egyptian civilization occur before the flood or just part of it? If part, then why did they pick back up as if nothing had happened and make up a detailed history to cover up the years inbetween the flood and then? Also, why did Ham allow them to develop such a 'strange' polytheistic religion. He lived a couple of hundred years, right? He didn't step in and say, "wait a minute, when the whole world was flooded a while ago I distinctly remember there only being one God"? Also, why didn't the Egyptians take note of the fact that there pharaohs were living for hundreds of years, instead giving them lives of 40 to 50 years in length?
__________________
"Creationists are going to distort whatever arguments come up.... Archaeopteryx is half reptile and half bird any way you cut the deck, and so it is a Rosetta stone for evolution, whether it is related to dinosaurs or not. These creationists are confusing an argument about minor details of evolution with the indisputable fact of evolution."
-Dr. Alan Feduccia, in an interview with Discover magazine
Did a little search. According to this site "In the worst 19th century maternity hospitals the natural death rate from childbirth was 9-10%". Seeing as there were no hospitals (even bad ones) before, during, or anything close to shortly after the flood, I would expect this number to be higher as well. So was mother mortality figured into these calculations? Did they figure that Eve might have died after ~12 births?
You cannot approach ancient population growth as if it were the 1980's, you have to look back a lot farther in order to appreciate what they could have accomplished.
Jewish tradition teaches that Adam and Eve had 33 sons and 23 daughters.... how many live to be adults... I don't have a clue...
Oh yeah... a reference to that information.... Josephus (note c to book 3)
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