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  #1  
Old 17th August 2003, 12:47 PM
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Agree Colorado judge bars mandatory pledge

Good! I hope that the so-called Pledge of Allegiance is eventually consigned to the oblivion that it so richly deserves. The pledge was originally penned by Baptist minister and utopian socialist, Edward Bellamy in the hope of instilling in the youth a blind obedience to the state. The "under God" portion was not added until the 1950s by the Eisenhower administration to help distinguish America from it's godless, Soviet foes. Do the children in the public schools really need to mindlessly recite this drivel every morning? For the vast majority of them it is a ritual that is quite meaningless.





http://www.washingtontimes.com/natio...4909-7318r.htm

Colorado judge bars mandatory pledge

DENVER (AP) — A federal judge yesterday blocked a Colorado law requiring public school students and teachers to recite the Pledge of Allegiance, calling the law discriminatory and divisive.
In issuing a temporary injunction, U.S. District Judge Lewis Babcock said the law discriminates against teachers by allowing students to opt out with a note from their parents. Teachers cannot opt out.
The judge also said the law pits students who choose to say the pledge against those who do not, and students against teachers.
"What is instructional about that?" Judge Babcock asked. "You can't compel a citizen of the United States to recite the Pledge of Allegiance."
Judge Babcock said that not reciting the pledge could lead to suspensions for students and firings for teachers, although supporters of the law said there were no penalties.
The injunction will be in effect until a yet-to-be-scheduled hearing on the challenge. Until then the pledge can be recited, but people can't be required to say it.
State Senate President John Andrews, a Republican, called the ruling a "gross insult to the patriotism of most Coloradans."
"It's bad jurisprudence. I'm confident it will be overturned on appeal," Mr. Andrews said.
The pledge has been part of the morning routine in many Colorado schools, but it was not required until the law took effect Aug. 6. It was challenged less than a week later by the American Civil Liberties Union on behalf of nine teachers and students from four Denver area districts.
ACLU attorney Allen Chen told the judge the law posed irreparable harm to the First Amendment rights of students and teachers.
"This is nothing less than ritualistic recitation of words that have much meaning to some people and no meaning to other people," he said.
State officials say anyone can choose not to say the pledge under certain circumstances.
Colorado is one of 33 states that require schools to include recitation of the pledge during the school day, according to the Education Commission of the States. Specific rules vary.
Last month, a federal court ruled that a Pennsylvania law requiring all students to recite the pledge or sing the national anthem violated students' freedom of speech under the First Amendment.
The Supreme Court is expected to announce in the fall whether it will consider another federal court ruling in San Francisco that said regular classroom recitations of the pledge are unconstitutional because of the phrase "one nation, under God."


Interested in the history of the origin of the pledge? Check it out:

http://archive.aclu.org/news/move/pledgeorigin.html
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  #2  
Old 17th August 2003, 06:27 PM
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I always say the original pledge >=D Having a mandatory pledge is kinda pointless. Honestly I don't care one way or the other.
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Old 17th August 2003, 06:31 PM
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State Senate President John Andrews, a Republican, called the ruling a "gross insult to the patriotism of most Coloradans."
Exactly how does forcing children to say the pledge of allegiance shows patriotism?
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  #4  
Old 17th August 2003, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Volos
Exactly how does forcing children to say the pledge of allegiance shows patriotism?
That's what I was wondering as well.
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  #5  
Old 17th August 2003, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by MadJack
That's what I was wondering as well.
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  #6  
Old 17th August 2003, 10:58 PM
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21 Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes, And prudent in their own sight!
Isaiah 5:20-21
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  #7  
Old 17th August 2003, 11:04 PM
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Well, if showing your allegience to the country by reciting the Pledge is unconstitutional, then let's make it completely optional. Then we can extend the same concept to all other forms of support of the country as well: make them completely optional.

I will cease paying taxes in an instant.
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  #8  
Old 17th August 2003, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Wolseley
Well, if showing your allegience to the country by reciting the Pledge is unconstitutional, then let's make it completely optional. Then we can extend the same concept to all other forms of support of the country as well: make them completely optional.

I will cease paying taxes in an instant.
That's fine, as long as you stop using the roads.

Not a great analogy.

I think the point is, how can forcing someone to say the pledge force them to have allegience to the country.

If I "force" you to state a belief in Santa Clause, will you believe?

The issue is whether students should be required to recite or should teachers be required to lead. Nobody is saying that reciting the Pledge is unconstitutional. You are free to do it whenever you wish just as those who choose not to say it should be free not to.
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  #9  
Old 18th August 2003, 07:53 AM
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Exactly. Forcing someone to say some words doesn't make them patriotic or good or happy. For myself, I just don't like saying someone else's words in general, be it in prayer or otherwise, when it's supposed to be expressing how I feel about something.

CHOOSING to show your allegiance by CHOOSING to recite the Pledge is fine. FORCING people to recite it whether or not they WANT to is not. Why do you want to force them to? I don't get it.
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  #10  
Old 18th August 2003, 08:17 AM
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i agree with rae. forcing someone to recite the pledge does not inspire patriotism. optional recitation is not a problem.
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