Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > General Theology
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology

Closed Thread
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Unread 20th March 2007, 03:26 PM
joyfulthanks's Avatar
The long day is over. Praise the Lord!

Gender: Female Married Faith: Lutheran Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 4th May 2005
Posts: 3,954
Blessings: 2,837,064
My Mood Thankful
Reps: 193,069,531,476,161,632 (power: 193,069,531,476,174)
joyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond repute
joyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond reputejoyfulthanks has a reputation beyond repute
Exodus typology - need your perspective

I need some perspective on the typology in Exodus.

I think all Christians would agree (based on scripture) that Christ is our passover.

There are also other symbolic connections between the various events of the exodus and Christian experience.

However, my question regards the conquest of Canaan. Where do you believe this fits in the OT typology? Some have said crossing the Jordan represents death, but I don't buy it because the Israelites still had to conquer Canaan and cast out enemies once they had crossed the Jordan.

Others (those of the holiness movement) have said that the crossing of the Jordan represents a second experience after justification - that of sanctification by faith. I'm not sure I buy that either.

One person thought that crossing the Jordan was anytime you exercised faith for something. I don't buy that because it would imply multiple crossings. The Israelites crossed the Jordan only once, though they did cast out multiple enemies after they got there.

Now, I know that types don't always concretely and airtightly represent things, but somehow I have the feeling that this one has important symbolism that I'm missing.

Anyone else have another perspective on this issue?

-Grace
__________________
"With no reprise.
The sun will rise.
The long day is over."


- Norah Jones

Praise the Lord!
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Unread 20th March 2007, 04:56 PM
Sleaker's Avatar
Victory of the People

30 Gender: Male Faith: Christian Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 5 Years Armor Bearer
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 9th September 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 451
Blessings: 148,803
Blog Entries: 2
Reps: 2,218 (power: 11)
Sleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of light
This is the way I've recently seen my view shift.

Israel is a picture of Christians, Egypt is a picture of the world.

Israel was kicked out of Egypt with the death of the Firstborn son.

The world kicked Christians out with the death of the firstborn son, Christ.

Now as Israel was coming out Egypt decided it didn't really want to let them go. And Israel escaped through the Red Sea. The sea was parted and they crossed on dry land, and then the army followed in and was swept away.

This is a picture of how the world changes it's mind, it doesn't want to let them go. The army is a picture of our Sin, it comes trailing ,us trying to pull us back into bondage. But we are baptized in the water and through the spirit and lose all connection to the old self.

[bible]1 Corinthians 10:1-4[/bible]

1 Corinthians 10 even shows how the Israelites were baptized into Moses through the water and in the cloud. In the Gospels John preaches to be baptized for the remission of sins. he is declaring that it is through baptism that your sins are wiped away. Once baptised your sins have no power over you and begin being led by the spirit.

As Israel walked through the desert they were led by the cloud and the Pillar of Fire, this is a picture of the Spirit Led life. We are directed by the spirit and we walk through the desert awaiting the time when we can enter the place of rest or the promise land.

Entering the promise Land is a picture of Christians finally entering the Kingdom of God. Jesus preached the entrance of the Kingdom declaring that it was close by, or "at hand" He showed what the fruits of the kingdom were: healings, casting out demons and other things. but we haven't crossed the Jordan yet, it's my belief that we will cross into the Promise Land and enter rest, when Jesus comes on the cloud and reclaims the world after the tribulation. Jesus declared that he would come back at the last trumpet sound at the end of the tribulation, not before. I believe this is when we begin the 'conquest' of the Promised land. For there will be that great battle that Christ will lead on the white horse. Then there will be peace and rest.

One of the reasons why we know we aren't in the Kingdom yet is because we don't see the fruit wherever we walk. How many of us do greater works than Jesus as he prophecied to the disciples saying they would do greater works than he, and the Disciples didn't enter or as Hebrews says, that promise would not still be here.

I can give more verses if yah need.
__________________
Doing is Believing:
Mark 16:16-18 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
  #3  
Unread 20th March 2007, 09:40 PM
GratiaCorpusChristi's Avatar
Senior Veteran

30 Gender: Male Married Faith: Lutheran Party: US-Republican Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 21st November 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,346
Blessings: 2,321,426
Reps: 1,901,420,495,657,747,968 (power: 1,901,420,495,657,764)
GratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond repute
GratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond repute
In the resurrection, God perminantly transfigured physical matter in Christ to the effect of redeeming all creation. Through the person of Jesus Christ, God has begun the restoration of the creation that groans for renewal.

And by redeeming creation in his person, Jesus Christ has allowed the Holy Spirit to indwell physical matter in a way never witnesses in the Old Testament- the perminant indwelling of the whole of the people of God. Those of us who are in Christ participate in that renewal of the physical, and it is this change in the substance of our being that lets the Holy Spirit touch us.

In this way we are a people with one foot in the wilderness and one foot in Canaan. Christ himself is the promised land- the goal toward which we hope, which will be realized for individuals in heaven and throughout all creation at the second coming and the resurrection of the dead. By participating in the body of Christ, we stand in participation and foreshadowing of this great and glorious future- the promised land.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The law says, 'do this,' and it is never done. Grace says, 'believe in this,' and everything is already done." - Martin Luther
"If Christ is risen, nothing else matters. And if Christ is not risen... nothing else matters." - Jaroslav Pelikan
"God became man that we might become god." - Saint Athanasius
  #4  
Unread 20th March 2007, 10:08 PM
Gwenyfur's Avatar
Legend

44 Gender: Female Faith: Pagan Party: US-Constitution Country: United States Member For 5 Years Tentmaker
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 18th December 2004
Location: Astral
Posts: 26,314
Blessings: 1,565,933
My Mood Daring
Blog Entries: 1
Reps: 269,441,039,450,483,712 (power: 269,441,039,450,519)
Gwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond repute
Gwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond reputeGwenyfur has a reputation beyond repute
I've heard...and haven't studied this one much...but

that the picture of conquering Canaan is a picture of the wrathful Christ returning to conquer the world and set up His physical Kingdome
__________________
Men should be judged, not by the tint of their skin, the Gods they serve, the Vintage that they drink, nor by the way they fight, or love, or sin, but by the quality of the thought they think.
--Laurence Hope


Warriors dance along a knife edge, maintaining the balance of their totality...celebrating strength while keeping it rigidly under control, only bringing it to bear when it is appropriate and unavoidable.
--Anon
  #5  
Unread 21st March 2007, 06:49 AM
aka northstar

40 Gender: Female Married Faith: Christian-Seeker Country: England Member For 5 Years Steward
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 13th August 2004
Location: England
Posts: 2,931
Blessings: 154,346
Reps: 40,260 (power: 53)
~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold
~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold~Nikki~ is a splendid one to behold
Here's a different aspect of the Exodus.

If the Hebrews coming out of the Egypt is a typology of Christians coming out of the 'world'; and the Hebrews going through the wilderness is a typology of Christians going through life...

Then, what about the fact that only two of the original people brought from Egypt actually made it to the Promised Land (type of heaven)?
  #6  
Unread 21st March 2007, 05:03 PM
Sleaker's Avatar
Victory of the People

30 Gender: Male Faith: Christian Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 5 Years Armor Bearer
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 9th September 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 451
Blessings: 148,803
Blog Entries: 2
Reps: 2,218 (power: 11)
Sleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of light
northstar, you must remember that the Promise of rest was still there for the Israelites when they were journeying through to get to the promise land. How many generations have come before ours that haven't seen Christ's second coming? Was it because of Disobedience? maybe. And this is exactly what Hebrews and 1 Corinthians 10 attempt to remind us of. It was possible for Israel to walk through the desert 11 days to Canaan and begin inhabiting the land immediately, but because they had no faith in God, even after he had provided mana for them, parted a sea, and performed 10 miracles to get them out of egypt they still hardened their hearts against him. I think it's both a warning and also parallels what has gone on with the church already. I mean it's been 2000 years since Christ died and rose, and 40 years after that the Apostles had been preaching about Christ's second coming as if it was coming anytime in their lives. I see this is a very large '40 year' wander in the desert, don't you?
__________________
Doing is Believing:
Mark 16:16-18 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
  #7  
Unread 21st March 2007, 09:37 PM
Regular Member

Gender: Male Faith: Christian Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 10th August 2006
Posts: 541
Blessings: 12,172
My Mood Amazed
Blog Entries: 7
Reps: 32,850,474,220,799,656 (power: 32,850,474,220,808)
pehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond repute
pehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond repute
Hope it helps:
---------------------------------

Twelve representatives of the twelve tribes of Israel took up twelve stones from the place where the priests' feet stood firm in the middle of the Jordan and brought them over and laid them down in the place where Israel lodged that night (4:1-5, 8). The twelve stones signify the twelve tribes of the new Israel. Their being raised up from the waters of the Jordan signifies resurrection from death. The twelve stones raised up from the water were a sign, signifying that the resurrected new Israel would be a testimony of the crossing of the death water (vv. 6-7, 21-24). This typifies the believers' experience with Christ of the resurrection from death (Rom. 6:3-11).

Joshua erected twelve stones in the middle of the Jordan, in the place where the feet of the priests who carried the ark had stood (Josh. 4:9). These were another twelve stones, signifying the twelve tribes of Israel in their old life and in their old nature. Joshua erected these twelve stones in the middle of the Jordan where the ark was, signifying that the Lord wanted Israel in their old nature to remain under the death water of the Jordan. This typifies that the old man of the believers should remain in the death of Christ (Rom. 6:6; Col. 2:20). We who have been identified with Christ in His death and resurrection, who have been resurrected with Christ to become the new man, should leave our old man under His death. We should all be able to declare that our old man has been buried with Christ and remains under the death of Christ and that we are the new man.

The people of Israel were ready to enter into the good land and to take it as their possession. However, in their old man they could not gain the victory. Their old man had to be buried so that they could become a new man.

The children of Israel were buried in the death of Christ and then they were resurrected in the resurrection of Christ. This indicates that even in the Old Testament time the children of Israel were identified with Christ and were one with Him. Because they were one with Christ, passing through Christ's experiences, His history became their history. In particular, they passed through Christ's death to bury their old man and to become a new man in Christ for the fighting of the spiritual warfare.
  #8  
Unread 21st March 2007, 10:24 PM
GratiaCorpusChristi's Avatar
Senior Veteran

30 Gender: Male Married Faith: Lutheran Party: US-Republican Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 21st November 2006
Location: Ohio
Posts: 8,346
Blessings: 2,321,426
Reps: 1,901,420,495,657,747,968 (power: 1,901,420,495,657,764)
GratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond repute
GratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond reputeGratiaCorpusChristi has a reputation beyond repute
I like my view.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"The law says, 'do this,' and it is never done. Grace says, 'believe in this,' and everything is already done." - Martin Luther
"If Christ is risen, nothing else matters. And if Christ is not risen... nothing else matters." - Jaroslav Pelikan
"God became man that we might become god." - Saint Athanasius
  #9  
Unread 21st March 2007, 10:39 PM
Sleaker's Avatar
Victory of the People

30 Gender: Male Faith: Christian Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 5 Years Armor Bearer
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 9th September 2006
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 451
Blessings: 148,803
Blog Entries: 2
Reps: 2,218 (power: 11)
Sleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of lightSleaker is a glorious beacon of light
Originally Posted by pehkay View Post
Hope it helps:


The children of Israel were buried in the death of Christ and then they were resurrected in the resurrection of Christ. This indicates that even in the Old Testament time the children of Israel were identified with Christ and were one with Him. Because they were one with Christ, passing through Christ's experiences, His history became their history. In particular, they passed through Christ's death to bury their old man and to become a new man in Christ for the fighting of the spiritual warfare.

I like the picture, but doesn't 1 Corinthians 10 say the same basic thing in reference to Israel crossing the Red Sea and not the Jordan?
__________________
Doing is Believing:
Mark 16:16-18 "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."
  #10  
Unread 22nd March 2007, 12:43 AM
Regular Member

Gender: Male Faith: Christian Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 10th August 2006
Posts: 541
Blessings: 12,172
My Mood Amazed
Blog Entries: 7
Reps: 32,850,474,220,799,656 (power: 32,850,474,220,808)
pehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond repute
pehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond reputepehkay has a reputation beyond repute
Yup.

Only the passing of the children of Israel through the Red Sea (Exo. 14:21-30) typifies the baptism of the New Testament believers (Rom. 6:4). Christ is their real Passover (redemption) and lamb eaten (life).
He is the redeeming Lamb of God (1:29, 36) slain for us that we may eat His flesh and drink His blood (John 6), taking Him in as our life supply that we may live by Him.

The Rea Sea is from the aspect of salvation.

The Jordan is more for aspect of experience of death and resurrection to terminate our natural man, our old man. This is needed because our old man, natural man is not qualified to fight the spiritual warfare for the gaining of Christ.

The first water crossing, that of the Red Sea, delivered them from Egypt. The second water crossing, that of the Jordan, delivered them from wandering in the wilderness and ushered them into the good land. If in your experience, after baptism (Red Sea) , you experience and enjoy Christ as the good land, then there is no need of "crossing river Jordan". But 99.5% of the time, YES, we "wondered in the wilderness". So we need cross river Jordan.

Last edited by pehkay; 22nd March 2007 at 12:50 AM. Reason: blah
Closed Thread


Return to General Theology

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:30 PM.