__________________ "There is much we do not understand about the history of life, and the same will be true of our grandchildren. But, then, if we knew all there was to know, scientific interest would cease. Textbooks may portray science as a codification of facts, but it is really a disciplined way of asking about the unknown." - A.H. Knoll, Life on a Young Planet
"[G]ood and evil are names for what people do, not for what they are." Philip Pullman, The Amber Spyglass
H2S??? I didn't know that... all I knew it was something thoroughly irritating
It mustn't be very large amounts of hydrogen sulphide because onions don't really stink like the gas does. (On my first encounter with hydrogen sulphide in chemistry class, instead of a careful sniff I managed to take a deeeep breath of it... wasn't very nice )
Dude! That's nothing! Guess what I did the first time I work with the super-acid combo of nitric and sulfuric.
I combined them together directly...not in solution-full strength. I cleared out the entire bottom floor of the science building.
Dude! That's nothing! Guess what I did the first time I work with the super-acid combo of nitric and sulfuric.
I combined them together directly...not in solution-full strength. I cleared out the entire bottom floor of the science building.
Oooops!
__________________ "There is much we do not understand about the history of life, and the same will be true of our grandchildren. But, then, if we knew all there was to know, scientific interest would cease. Textbooks may portray science as a codification of facts, but it is really a disciplined way of asking about the unknown." - A.H. Knoll, Life on a Young Planet
"[G]ood and evil are names for what people do, not for what they are." Philip Pullman, The Amber Spyglass
I respectfully disagree with your theory, as natural selection selects traits which make an organism more "fit", and I fail to see how crying to show grief would make an organism more fit. It's good that you are interested in this question, but I think there must be another answer.
I respectfully disagree with your theory, as natural selection selects traits which make an organism more "fit", and I fail to see how crying to show grief would make an organism more fit. It's good that you are interested in this question, but I think there must be another answer.
In social animals, fitness depends very much on how well you are integrated into your community. I think any display of emotion can serve to strengthen your social bonds. Off the top of my head, if you show your grief, you are probably more likely to have others help and support you emotionally and otherwise. Why the signal is crying - that's quite another matter. Perhaps just another paedomorphic feature of humans
__________________ "There is much we do not understand about the history of life, and the same will be true of our grandchildren. But, then, if we knew all there was to know, scientific interest would cease. Textbooks may portray science as a codification of facts, but it is really a disciplined way of asking about the unknown." - A.H. Knoll, Life on a Young Planet
"[G]ood and evil are names for what people do, not for what they are." Philip Pullman, The Amber Spyglass
Darwin struggled with the evolution of tears: what evolutionary advantage could come of secreting water from the eyes? I thought about this, and suggest the following answer.
Tears are both an expression of sorrow/grief—and also a grand visual display of grief—meant to be viewed by others. Think about what happens when you see someone crying: there is an immediate response from the gut; we feel great sympathy, and if we were angry before, our anger dissipates.
I think this explains why the display of tears evolved: to show resignation and submission to an opponent; to relieve tension between warring individuals—and therefore enhance the weaker one's chance of survival.
What do you think?
id say it developed much more as a simple way to lubricate and clean the eyes.
__________________ I'm a polyatheists. There are many gods I dont believe in.
I'd like to address a number of things I have read as I am new to this particular post:
Inan3:
Survival of the fittest was around before evolution!
The term survival of the fittest was coined by Herbert Spencer in 1864, five years AFTER Darwin explained evolution in terms of natural selection. You are simply speculating. Please know things before you post them.
Joman:
The AV Bible is an eyewitness account of what actually occurred before mankind existed and since.
How can it be an eyewitness acount without anyone around to witness it? Totally sending this to FSTDT!
Zyllem:
I respectfully disagree with your theory, as natural selection selects traits which make an organism more "fit", and I fail to see how crying to show grief would make an organism more fit. It's good that you are interested in this question, but I think there must be another answer.
You are assuming natural selection makes organisms more "fit" directly. This is not always the case. Crying would fall under the category of inclusive fitness, which means that the process might indirectly contribute to survival. If you saw a stranger crying the compassionate, nice thing to do would be to see if you can help them with anything. If you saw someone crying over a loved one that was just hit by a car, you certainly would feel bad and likely help that individual if it you could in any way. Acquiring the aid of others through this process would likely have benefitted anyone who exhibited the traits.
I have an article that goes into this in a bit more detail, but is a public article so it is digestible for those of you who are non-science types.
www . froes . dds . nl/ tears . htm
(for the record this is [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] how we cannot post URLs without over 50 posts)
__________________ "Without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Imagine this....Warriors going to battle, full of anger and hatred, ready to kill, destroy and conqueor
Spoken like some one who has never gone into battle.
Believe me the overwhelming emotions are not anger and hatred, its fear.
Originally Posted by Inan3
and THEN...the opposing side breaks down and cries , so the other side stops...drops their weapons and gives them a great big hug! NOT!!!!!!![/color]
Do you suppose that anyone cried during the holicaust? But they were still massacred! Do you think POW's may have cried? or children or women being abused and killed? Need I say more?
Yet in all the examples you gave there have been instances of humans taking pity on the enemy and sparing them. They are far from the overwhelming majority, but but it is disingenuous to imply they don’t exist at all.
Actually the OP has a point, although it needs to be developed a little. In infancy crying is a method by which we communicate a need to the adult members of the pack, which they will attempt to fulfil. Hence we are conditioned to respond favourably to the emotional displays of certain people. This does not meen we are conditioned to respond favourably to them when displayed by just anyone, but we certainly are when the person doing the display is one to which we feel an emotional connection.
The higher our own Empathy, the more likely we are to respond to the same cues in less familiar individuals. It is why people with high empathy tend to help strangers who are obviously in distress, whilst people with low empathy can easily shrug it off, or even, if their levels of empathy are particularly low, may respond negatively to another’s signs of distress.
Originally Posted by Inan3
As to the primitives it was survival of the fittest not the weakest. Unfortunately it still is.
However, in pack animals “fittest” indicates the pact that is most able to protect and assist the highest number of its members. Social animals are not going to be as successful if they can not recognise one another’s distress and do something about it, especially in their young.
Ghost
__________________ Every "good" scientific theory is a prohibition: it forbids certain things to happen. The more a theory forbids, the better it is. - Popper, Sir Karl
Science does not deal in metaphysics. The existence or non-existence of God is a metaphysical question, and as such science neither attempts to prove or disprove God.
Should I even post this? I feel like I'm speaking to myself, well, for what it is worth. Emotional Tears are a gift from god. They are consolation for a miserable circumstance, they are a companion in times of extreme happiness. In some religious people they are also a sign that God hears them, but I digress... You atheists will never know the true reason for all these things we humans experience (not saying I even do).
Sorry.
mBNC
__________________ Taking your SELF out of what you present yourself to be is harder than killing yourself but it is certainly a lot more rewarding.
, so the other side stops...drops their weapons and gives them a great big hug! NOT!!!!!!![/color]
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