The Big Bang Theory

lucaspa · #41 15th January 2004, 11:37 PM

Originally Posted by CryptoKnight

(I fear I have been misunderstood, but I shall press on nonetheless)
I agree. I was not stating that God used evolution to create Man, I was stating that I can concede that *may* have happened...I do not deny the possibility of a creation miracle where Man was created from nothing.

However, this is exactly the point I was making. Even if evolution DID happen, there had to be a point where the first man (adam) was _capable_ of entering Heaven. Even if mankind evolved, there was a "first man" who had a soul, and therefore I believe that Adam and Eve are literal figures.

OK. Now you are getting close to a Jewish argument I have heard before: that Adam and Eve were the first Hebrews. Not the first people, but the first Hebrews. I would wonder, however, if that "capability" of entering heaven was due to anything in the man or was a pure decision of God.

The data do deny the possibility that Man was created from nothing. Remember, science can falsify. And that is what happened here. Now, can you please clarify just how you mean by "Adam and Eve are literal figures."?

Did God put souls into only one man and one woman? Or did He do it to an entire generation of humans? Why only two?

Do you think the story of how the soul was put in -- formation of the body from dust and then infusion of the soul -- is literal?

Was Eve formed from Adam's rib? BTW, why doesn't it say Eve was infused with a soul? Did the soul come across with the rib? If so, why?

(A logical deduction from that is: Does that mean we transfer a soul with a blood transfusion or organ transplant? Maybe the JWs and Christian Scientists have a point here?)

CryptoKnight · #42 16th January 2004, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by lucaspa

OK. Now you are getting close to a Jewish argument I have heard before: that Adam and Eve were the first Hebrews. Not the first people, but the first Hebrews. I would wonder, however, if that "capability" of entering heaven was due to anything in the man or was a pure decision of God.

I do not mean to imply this, at all. Rather, I am taking a broader approach saying that Adam and Eve were the first Homo Sapiens Sapiens. Adam was either created directly from the ground, or indirectly through evolution, but from the ground he ultimately came. I'm saying that *if* it was evolution (which I'm *not* convinced of), then Adam's daddy was not what we would call human.

Originally Posted by lucaspa

The data do deny the possibility that Man was created from nothing. Remember, science can falsify. And that is what happened here. Now, can you please clarify just how you mean by "Adam and Eve are literal figures."?

By "literal" I mean that there really was an "Adam" and an "Eve". This I absolutely believe.

Originally Posted by lucaspa

Did God put souls into only one man and one woman? Or did He do it to an entire generation of humans? Why only two?

Do you think the story of how the soul was put in -- formation of the body from dust and then infusion of the soul -- is literal?

Yes, I believe God put souls into only ONE man and ONE woman. This is, in fact, my whole (largely misunderstood) point. Adam and Eve aren't vague references to the first generation, they are two distinct people, either a direct creation or God's culminating purpose to natural selection.

I believe the formation from dust is "literal" in that this is where Adam ultimately comes from. Think about it, even if Evolution is true, the Bible is stating that Adam came from that which makes up the ground: atoms, the ultimate dust. Not from "mud", like most other theologies, but from the "dust of the ground" [NIV, KJV. NKJV].

The Bible doesn't tell us HOW God formed Adam, and I think it is almost immaterial. Regardless, Adam shows up, one way or another, God breaths spirit into him, and here we are.