Creationism

I offer the following for our consideration.
I am a creation/evolution. I believe the Bible from beginning to end. Genesis, all of it.
I believe that God created the earth in 6 time periods. There may or may not be a gap in between each time period. And there may be a different length in each time period. I believe that man has been on the earth for 6000+- years. I certainly believe that Genesis 1:2 lends itself to the gap theory. This would suggest to me that the earth maybe a lot older than we think. I certainly believe that God literally "spoke" and it happened. In that I am a creationist. But, and here is the rub. After that things evolved. We know today that inbreading can be a major problem, yet in the beginning it clearly wasn't.
Can I put in the following.
I am a literal allegorist reader of the Bible. But I am also a allegorist literal reader of the Bible.
So, I can say that I believe that God created the earth in 6 literal time periods but that may not be 6 literal 24 hour days. From sundown to sun down. Consider: The evening and the morning were the first day. Huh? What about the rest of the day. hang on a bit. Shouldn't that be from sundown to sundown?
Oh, and it is always worth going back to the Hebrew for a better translation.
Enjoy the debate.

Hi Faithman,

I would like to ask you a few questions..........
Did God create Adam as a fully grown man?
Would it be possible for God to create a tree that seems hundreds of years old in a twinkle of an eye?
So what we see as millions of years could be a few seconds for God right? Why, because God is outside of time.
I believe God had an overall plan and knew that we needed to understand that He created the universe in 6 days and rested on the seventh, just imagine how different our lives would be if it was not for that.......
I know that science who is probably 90% atheistic by now is seeking a substitute for God or to prove the necessity of God is a waste of time....but are we not to live by the unseen(faith)?

Example, I believe Jesus promised us that we ARE healed by His stripes, but lets say one has cancer according to the doctors, what must we as born again Christians believe is the truth, Jesus or the doctors? If we believe the doctors we die, if we believe Jesus we live! Is this not the reason why certain people gets miraculously healed from cancer?

Faith is a whole new topic that we could spend much time discussing. I suggest we table that to another time and concentrate on your science related questions.

Now to come back to science, I believe what they observe is facts, it is right there before their eyes, but I do not believe they have all the knowledge to explain everything, mostly theories are made. God could have created and old looking universe like He made an adult Adam(if he was created as a baby, how would he have survived, food, etc.)........if science observed Adam they would not have said he is a couple of days old would they?

Anyway, until all knowledge in the universe has been accumulated by science to make an informed decision, I believe the Bible to be the truth.

My 2 cents.......

The Big Bang is still a theory - TRUE. But if you look at the empirical evidence that supports it, the prediction and proof of cosmic background radiation, the expanding universe, the ability to predict using Einsteinian physics, the 11 dimensions of space-time, dark matter, the relation between light and matter, this all follows logically and predicably.

The Christian apologist Dr. William Lane Craig believes God existed in a timeless state (tenseless) before the creation of the universe. As God spoke the universe into existence, the eleven dimensions started to unfold until we got to the four we all familiar with. From that point on, God exists in a "tensed" state. Gen 1:1 (NIV) In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. This coincides quite nicely with the Gap Theory.

[These verses have traditionally been understood as referring to the actual beginning of matter, a Creation out of nothing and therefore part of day one. But the vocabulary and grammar of this section require a closer look. The motifs and the structure of the Creation account are introduced in the first two verses. That the universe is God’s creative work is perfectly expressed by the statement God created the heavens and the earth. The word bārā’ (“created”) may express creation out of nothing, but it certainly cannot be limited to that (cf. Gen_2:7). Rather, it stresses that what was formed was new and perfect. The word is used throughout the Bible only with God as its subject.] This was taken from the Bible Knowledge Commentary.

Gen 1:2 (NIV) Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

This is were the Gap is and the starting point of the Gap Theory. [But Gen_1:2 describes a chaos: there was waste and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. The clauses in Gen_1:2 are apparently circumstantial to Gen_1:3, telling the world’s condition when God began to renovate it. It was a chaos of wasteness, emptiness, and darkness. Such conditions would not result from God’s creative work (bārā’); rather, in the Bible they are symptomatic of sin and are coordinate with judgment. Moreover, God’s Creation by decree begins in Gen_1:3, and the elements found in Gen_1:2 are corrected in Creation, beginning with light to dispel the darkness. The expression formless and empty (ṯōhû wāḇōhû) seems also to provide an outline for Gen_1:1-31, which describes God’s bringing shape and then fullness to the formless and empty earth.

Some have seen a middle stage of Creation here, that is, an unfinished work of Creation (Gen_1:2) that was later developed (Gen_1:3-25) into the present form. But this cannot be sustained by the syntax or the vocabulary.

Others have seen a “gap” between the first two verses, allowing for the fall of Satan and entrance of sin into the world that caused the chaos. It is more likely that Gen_1:1 refers to a relative beginning rather than the absolute beginning (Merrill F. Unger, Unger’s Commentary on the Old Testament. 2 vols. Chicago: Moody Press, 1981, 1:5). The chapter would then be accounting for the Creation of the universe as man knows it, not the beginning of everything, and Gen_1:1-2 would provide the introduction to it. The fall of Satan and entrance of sin into God’s original Creation would precede this.

It was by the Spirit that the Lord God sovereignly created everything that exists (Gen_1:2). In the darkness of the chaos the Spirit of God moved to prepare for the effectual creative word of God.]

The above is taken right out of the Bible Knowledge Commentary. A similar explanation was presented in the Unger's Bible Commentary (Old Testament in two volumes) that I have also used to study this subject.

As an engineer (practical scientist), the Gap Theory makes the most sense. When I first read about the theory in my Dake KJV Bible, I was hooked by the logic of it.

Some things we might be able to agree on:

• God created the universe
• Macro-evolution is a false theory
• Carbon-dating is not all that accurate
• Micro-evolution is nothing more than adaptation

I do not believe the 7-Day Creation Theory, or the Gap Theory, or the Day-Age Theory are essentials to the Christian Faith.

Hi Stan,
How do you bring evolution and the Word which states that God made us in his likeness together?

About the days, did the Hebrew people not go by the moon when they counted the days....

Tell me your view, according to Genesis the sun and the moon was created I believe the fourth day, would it have been possible to have life on earth before the creation of the sun? This to me kills the gap theory.

Thx

A question with a question. When did God start working on us? And is that work done or is it a work in progress? I would respectfully suggest it be still evolving. I would also suggest the earth is a work in progress.
I didn't know that.

There are some interesting question to be pondered.
Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Interesting. How long did this take?
Genesis 1:2a And the earth became void and form.
Oh really? This would suggest some little time may have passed. I know the KJV and others say "was", but that is not what the Hebrew says.
Genesis 1:2b And the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the deep.
Hang on, couple of questions here. How long did the spirit hover? And the deep, what deep? This would suggest water maybe? Interesting.
I didn't say I knew everything. But there are some interesting points to ponder.

Do you actually suggest that God did not make us in His likeness, but hopefully we will evolve to get to that point? I did not get that idea when I read the Bible, did you?

The world is in a proses of changing, perishing is probably a better word you use, micro evolution is a mechanism that God put in place to help species survive and adapt to its ever changing environment, if the adaptation is to slow the specie dies out!

I agree with you about Gen 1:1, He did not give explicit times, so we do not know for sure how long it took to create, but it could have been a day also, for He created the sun and the moon in one day, right?

Another thought to ponder on is the mentioning of Heavens in Gen 1:1, which Heavens are He talking about, because God created the Moon, Sun and the Stars on the third day right?

God did make us in His image - but - we were sanctified (past tense), we are being sanctified (present tense) and we will be sanctified (future tense). In that sense we are a work in progress, or we are evolving to be the image of God that He created us to be.
I believe that God created the world with a finite life span. It is possible we are at the end of that like span. I believe that the world has been around for roughly 6 thousand years and has roughly another 1 thousand years to go.
I certainly agree that this could be one time period. The Bible talks of a day with the Lord being as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. How long was a day? Was it 24 hours of 60 minutes? What about the theory of light decay?

Yes, I have always pondered this. Was it Paul who said something about the third heaven was it? What is all that about?
I guess if I was really specific I would say I am a creationist. I have to be. God's word says it. But to place myself in a specific camp I would have a hard time. And I have to say I have enjoyed the discussion.

Hi,

Thanks for your reply, I too would love for the gap theory to be true, for it will answer most questions involving fossils which are believed to be millions of years old, but I cannot believe that life is sustainable without the sun like today which was created the third day and that means after the gap theory.....

This is wrong. The Gap Theory does not say the Sun was created on the 3rd Day. The Sun was already created but not visible because of the chaos on earth.
Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen 1:4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day. (NIV)

To me, I need to make a stand, I cannot deny or believe that what is said in Genesis is only theories, so if someone should ask me about the creation theory I take Scripture at face value, for I believe if God wanted to create the universe and all that we know in any time He feel fit, that He is powerful enough to do it. He has an overall plan and Genesis is the start.

I know there are many things we as humans do not understand yet and that is why we need to live by faith that His Word is the truth. You are correct, I do not think you are going to hell if you have a certain understanding about Genesis, but what we need to look at is how does our theory influence our relationship with God.......does it make it stronger or weaker.......the macro evolution theory has a very negative affect on Christians, because it brings doubt in their mind, like when the serpent told Eve that God was lying to them(so Genesis could be a lie) and if they eat the fruit(knowledge) they will become like gods.....this same lie is being used by darkness to bring humans to their knees and go astray from God, believing knowledge (science) has all the answers.
I am not against science at all, I only have a problem when they try to teach people there is no God or we do not need a God.....

Be blessed!