Jesus didn't institute a church

Uphill Battle · #1 25th February 2007, 09:06 AM

the word Church, when interpolated into the text, is in error.

Ekklesia, is NOT church. Ekklesia is an assembly.

When you look at the scriptures in this light, you can see much more clearly the truth of the matter.

Matt.16
[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my (assembly of believers), and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.

so, the powerr of death will not prevail against Gods children. A wonderful promise! And it completely does away with the notion that He ever promised an error free institution.

Matt.18
[17] If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the (assembly of believers); and if he refuses to listen even to the (assembly of believers) let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.

another instance that flies in the face of authority of one orginization! We are to take them to the assembly of believers. NOT a church.

it really chages the claim that Jesus instituted the EO or RCC church, doesn't it!

OldStudent · #2 25th February 2007, 09:40 AM

As God sat me down to look at things one of the first projects was the investigation of "church." Up to the Exodus God's people were generally found in the "patriarchy" - the family line through Seth and Shem. In Egypt God incubated a nation - Israel. The coming of the Son to them worked out to be a last ditch effort to bring them back to their commission. Since they couldn't be brought back to their mission God's "embassy" (non-Biblical like trinity and millenium but descriptive) had to walk past the national identity and, years after the ascension, the church took form. You are right, as long as you and I are in it it isn't perfect but we and the church are His. It is a key crucible in which we are grown for return to the society of the universe we, the human race, seceded from. It is unfortunate that it is so fractured by denominationalism and personal stubbornness. God works around and through even that.

Uphill Battle · #3 25th February 2007, 02:18 PM

the key point is that denominationalism has nothing to do with whom Jesus calls his own.

IamAdopted · #4 25th February 2007, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Uphill Battle

the key point is that denominationalism has nothing to do with whom Jesus calls his own.

Jesus came to establish Truth. and Reconciliation and to draw people to Himself through His truth.. These are whom make up the body of Christ..

His Church,His bride. Yahoo..

Uphill Battle · #5 25th February 2007, 09:00 PM

bump. I notice the "Jesus instituted our church" camp has had nothing to say on the matter....

Rightglory · #6 25th February 2007, 09:36 PM

uphill Battle,

it really chages the claim that Jesus instituted the EO or RCC church, doesn't it!

Not speaking for the RCC, but the EO does not make that claim.

Uphill Battle · #7 25th February 2007, 09:51 PM

Originally Posted by Rightglory

uphill Battle,
Not speaking for the RCC, but the EO does not make that claim.

I've seen it claimed that EO is the one true church, the only one existing since the first century.

Rightglory · #8 25th February 2007, 10:45 PM

uphill battle,

I've seen it claimed that EO is the one true church, the only one existing since the first century

Yes, but that was not your statement. You are referencing a church, an organizational church.
Christ established HIS CHURCH upon this earth. A Church of which HE and HE alone is Head. He is Head over the Body, which is made up of believers.
Believers, who are real, physically present in this world have entered into His Chruch and worship as one in each congregation. Each congregation is the True, complete, full, Body of Christ. We are many but ONE. It is Trinitarian and Incarnational. It is Ontological and organic.
However, many of those "catholic" churches have organized, especially within national borders, thus establishing concrete organizational bodies. It is these organizations that are of ONE FAITH, ONE LORD, ONE BAPTISM, and thus are joined with Christ in faith and practice.
That Church, today, historically is embodied in the Orthodox Church. Other than Christ, it has no other Head, no organization here on earth. It has met in Ecumemical Assemblies, but these are only representative of His Church. It is the Body of which He is Head that constitutes His Church.

Is this not what Scripture states?

Uphill Battle · #9 25th February 2007, 11:08 PM

Originally Posted by Rightglory

uphill battle,
Yes, but that was not your statement. You are referencing a church, an organizational church.
Christ established HIS CHURCH upon this earth. A Church of which HE and HE alone is Head. He is Head over the Body, which is made up of believers.
Believers, who are real, physically present in this world have entered into His Chruch and worship as one in each congregation. Each congregation is the True, complete, full, Body of Christ. We are many but ONE. It is Trinitarian and Incarnational. It is Ontological and organic.
However, many of those "catholic" churches have organized, especially within national borders, thus establishing concrete organizational bodies. It is these organizations that are of ONE FAITH, ONE LORD, ONE BAPTISM, and thus are joined with Christ in faith and practice.
That Church, today, historically is embodied in the Orthodox Church. Other than Christ, it has no other Head, no organization here on earth. It has met in Ecumemical Assemblies, but these are only representative of His Church. It is the Body of which He is Head that constitutes His Church.

Is this not what Scripture states?

no.

Scripture does not state that any ecumenical body was instituted.

Ekklesia is assembly. All those gathered in the name of Christ.

NOT the orthodox church. NOT the catholic church. NOT any protestant denomination. NOT any non denominational congegration.

ALL believers, ALL gathered in his name.

THIS is what scripture, and the words of Christ state.

IamAdopted · #10 25th February 2007, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by Uphill Battle

no.

Scripture does not state that any ecumenical body was instituted.

Ekklesia is assembly. All those gathered in the name of Christ.

NOT the orthodox church. NOT the catholic church. NOT any protestant denomination. NOT any non denominational congegration.

ALL believers, ALL gathered in his name.

THIS is what scripture, and the words of Christ state.

Amen.. And this is what the church is.. The body all joined together in the Spirit of Christ and all washed in His blood..