The churches will last until Yahshua returns to rule.
Then He will finally do away with all that is wrong.
Believers in Yahshua are and will be kicked out of the world churches,
that is normal and expected.
But for the believers, that is a sure sign of sharing the suffering of Yahshua for the Gospels Sake , for Truth.
Yhvh is not pleased with anyone who seeks the approval of man.
__________________ if you find someone who is honest,
like in G.rm.ny, did you know the doctors there are allowed to cure leukemia with vitamins and minerals. No toxicity and very low cost. Takes a few weeks. Not legal for doctors in the usa because "it can't be patented" (that's their own words, their own reason)
But then, he was only a critic. He had no answers.
"Ek KLhsia" is two words. The preposition "ek" is translated "from" or "out of."
"Klhsia" is a verb translated, "called.
"Ek Klhsia" = "Called-out."
"Out of" Israel, and "Out of" pagan religions.
This produced the "dead Body of Israel" and the "remnant saved" -- at the Rapture in AD 77.
So then, the three kingdoms were, and are: "physical Israel" and Jesus' "Called-out" and "New Jerusalem," founded in AD 77 after the Rapture.
See Isaiah's description of New Jerusalem replacing annihilated Israe"
"Look, I will create new heavens and a new earth (New Jerusalem), and the Former (Israel) will not be remembered nor come to mind" - Isa 65.17.
This is one of the most oft-repeated prophecies in the Bible.
Moses was graphic about the annihilation of Israel in Deut 28.
He was also graphis about New Jerusalem - Deut 30.
the word Church, when interpolated into the text, is in error.
Ekklesia, is NOT church. Ekklesia is an assembly.
When you look at the scriptures in this light, you can see much more clearly the truth of the matter.
Matt.16 [18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my (assembly of believers), and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
so, the powerr of death will not prevail against Gods children. A wonderful promise! And it completely does away with the notion that He ever promised an error free institution.
Matt.18 [17] If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the (assembly of believers); and if he refuses to listen even to the (assembly of believers) let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector.
another instance that flies in the face of authority of one orginization! We are to take them to the assembly of believers. NOT a church.
it really chages the claim that Jesus instituted the EO or RCC church, doesn't it!
My pastor told us that if you want to destroy Christianity; attack the structure that defines it i.e the church.
Is the church not an assembly of believers? Did Jesus have a problem with Authority in his assembly? Without the so called organization, would Christianity have "thrived" the way it did over the centuries? Most structureless religions I know do not grow as they are very individualistic in nature, which is contrary to what Christianity is about.
I am not advocating for a particular church, but the EO and the RCC maybe justified to make those claims since they can trace their roots back to Jesus and the apostles. I do understand their line of thought, as far as they are not excluding others.
I assume then that we are to dispute that Paul's writings are inspired as he seemed to be very supportive of the church.
Those men that was speaking of in the Gospel are also the men of the government and not teachers of truth. They were the pharasee's and did not love the Lord and IN FACT were the ones wanting Him put to death and you say we are to obey them? I get my authority from the Scriptures and Christ Spirit in me. I do not get my authority from Man when it comes to my Lord. He is my authority. For He is the only Head of His Church.
Is it not "man" who told you which books form your "Scriptures"? Be careful now you are in danger of contradicting yourself.
I beg to differ with you. Jesus did institute a church, and its first official members were twelve men. let us get over this romantic ideology that christ came to establish an invisible body, whereby believers only worship in their hearts. Sounds like Eastern mysticism to me and no longer christianity. Without that organized church we would not even know christianity as it would have been infiltrated by all sorts of gnostic teachings and Lord knows what else.
the main issue here has nothing to do with Jesus not instituting a church. this is just an advancement of secular thinking whereby people do not want to see, smell or hear anyone seeming to have some level of authority.
so exactly how would this community of believers look like?
The Church is the "pillar and ground of the truth"
1 Timothy 3:15 (King James Version)
"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth"
__________________
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"Only love overcomes the fragmentation of human nature."
St Maximus the Confessor
"For one who loves transforms all that he loves into himself, while one who hates loses even what he has. One who loves belongs to the loved one while one who hates does not even belong to himself. "
I am not advocating for a particular church, but the EO and the RCC maybe justified to make those claims since they can trace their roots back to Jesus and the apostles. I do understand their line of thought, as far as they are not excluding others.
I can trace back every single denomination to the apostles so I would disagree with this statement. One can also muddy the waters when you bring in people who have received the blessing the way the RCC says it is done but ceased to be part of the RCC. Do they suddenly lose their blessing? I would argue no they do not.
Bear in mind that if you do lose apostolic blessing when you leave the denomination then then we need to ask who does have it. In my experience the RCC claim they were the first and the EO spit from them and the EO claim the other way around.
Originally Posted by hollyanglo
Is it not "man" who told you which books form your "Scriptures"? Be careful now you are in danger of contradicting yourself.
not at all. Or has the anglican position on the bible changed since I was involved with that denomination? They have never said it was decided by man before but rather by God. I think you need to be more clear about what you are suggesting.
God works through all things good or bad so simply because he has used something does not actually mean he endorses it.
please note I am not making any comment one way or the other on any denomination here but rather just making a point.
__________________ against tradition simply for tradition. for tradition that has good reason.
Last edited by TheDag; 6th November 2009 at 09:16 PM.
Reason: combine responses
The Church is the "pillar and ground of the truth"
1 Timothy 3:15 (King James Version)
"But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth"
No disrespect intended but how does this apply to the discussion please??? I can see two different ways to interpret your post so clarification is required.
__________________ against tradition simply for tradition. for tradition that has good reason.
If he didn't plan to institute a Church why would the scriptures call the Church the "pillar and ground of truth" ?
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. love is the fulfillment of the law. To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
.
"Only love overcomes the fragmentation of human nature."
St Maximus the Confessor
"For one who loves transforms all that he loves into himself, while one who hates loses even what he has. One who loves belongs to the loved one while one who hates does not even belong to himself. "
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