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SDAs & Formers - W. Miller's 15 "PROOFS" for Oct. 22, 1844
How many of you have ever read William Miller's 15 proofs for arriving at the October 22, 1844 date for Christ's second coming? Of course you know that they first pointed to 1843, and then the Spring of 1844, which both came and went before coming up with the Oct. 22, 1844 date.
We all know that Jesus did NOT come back on that day, but the next day (Oct. 23, 1844) Hiram Edson had a vision confirming that the dates were still valid but for an event that supposedly took place in heaven the day before. It wasn't long and EGW had her own vision confirming the only vision Edson ever had. She then wrote that God had 'shown' her that he had directed Miller to all of his conclusions, that he had shown Miller the correct interpretation of prophecy, and that it was a "perfect chain of biblical truth" that was given to him.
I would like for this thread to be a presentation and discussion of the 15 proofs that God supposedly gave to William Miller. I would like to reconstruct them here so that we can analyze if they should stand as Ellen White says they should.
And, just so that everyone is clear, I want to take an honest look at these 15 proofs or "perfect chain of biblical truth" because they are the very foundation for the Investigative Judgment, the ONLY unique doctrine to Seventh-day Adventism. The bottom line is do Miller's proofs stand up to scrutiny? Are they the truth?
This will NOT be a discussion about the Investigative Judgement doctrine. It will ONLY be a discussion about William Miller's 15 proofs, the very foundation of the IJ. If you want to discuss the IJ without taking an honest look at its foundation, start your own thread.
So, if anyone has those original 15 proofs please post them with the proof number in the title line (i.e. Proof #1, Proof #2, etc.). Discussion can follow each one. Please read the proofs before responding.
Source:
Kai Arasola, The End of Historicism, (Sigtuna, Sweden: Datem Publishing, 1990) pages 219-225
Dr. Arasola (an SDA) analyzed W. Miller's methods of Bible study and his conclusions, including his "15 proofs" (he reprinted them in the book) which were instrumental to arriving at the three different dates for Christ's second coming (and soon after their failure, the same dates were used for the basis of the Investigative Judgment).
__________________ Freeindeed So if the Son makes you FREE, you will be FREE INDEED. Jn 8:36
So Christ has truly set us FREE. Now make sure that you stay FREE, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Gal 5:1
Last edited by freeindeed2; 27th February 2007 at 03:13 PM.
How many of you have ever read William Miller's 15 proofs for arriving at the October 22, 1844 date for Christ's second coming? Of course you know that they first pointed to 1843, and then the Spring of 1844, which both came and went before coming up with the Oct. 22, 1844 date.
We all know that Jesus did NOT come back on that day, but the next day (Oct. 23, 1844) Hiram Edson had a vision confirming that the dates were still valid but for an event that supposedly took place in heaven the day before. It wasn't long and EGW had her own vision confirming the only vision Edson ever had. She then wrote that God had 'shown' her that he had directed Miller to all of his conclusions, that he had shown Miller the correct interpretation of prophecy, and that it was a "perfect chain of biblical truth" that was given to him.
I would like for this thread to be a presentation and discussion of the 15 proofs that God supposedly gave to William Miller. I would like to reconstruct them here so that we can analyze if they should stand as Ellen White says they should.
And, just so that everyone is clear, I want to take an honest look at these 15 proofs or "perfect chain of biblical truth" because they are the very foundation for the Investigative Judgment, the ONLY unique doctrine to Seventh-day Adventism. The bottom line is do Miller's proofs stand up to scrutiny? Are they the truth?
This will NOT be a discussion about the Investigative Judgement doctrine. It will ONLY be a discussion about William Miller's 15 proofs, the very foundation of the IJ. If you want to discuss the IJ without taking an honest look at its foundation, start your own thread.
So, if anyone has those original 15 proofs please post them with the proof number in the title line (i.e. Proof #1, Proof #2, etc.). Discussion can follow each one. Please read the proofs before responding.
I think this is your own misunderstanding. The dating is a key issue, but not the very foundation of the IJ. The foundation of Investigative Judgment is the sanctuary doctrine. The dating is less than a secondary importance, a supporting role.
Furthermore, the previous dating of 1843 was a failed calculation because there was no year zero. And I don't think they ever dated to the spring because the whole IJ was the antitypical application of the fall harvest feast. I'd like to see an original quote from W Miller that dated it to the spring time.
__________________ John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Seeing this makes me wonder how everything is going to work out in the end. Here we have a former SDA pastor who for over 30 years preached the gospel and believed the truth with all of his heart but now is working desparately to chip away at the very foundation of that very faith.
It makes my heart sick to see this and to read the comments being made that have become so very slightly skewed from the truth in the Bible. The most powerful deceptions are the ones that contain 99% truth but 1% error. That tiny little ink spot or fly dropping in the annointment.
Indeed Mrs White at one point I understand made a statement that in the closing days of earth's history that some of the brightest lights would go out and become the greatest enemies of God's work.
Seeing this makes me wonder how everything is going to work out in the end. Here we have a former SDA pastor who for over 30 years preached the gospel and believed the truth with all of his heart but now is working desparately to chip away at the very foundation of that very faith.
It makes my heart sick to see this and to read the comments being made that have become so very slightly skewed from the truth in the Bible. The most powerful deceptions are the ones that contain 99% truth but 1% error. That tiny little ink spot or fly dropping in the annointment.
Indeed Mrs White at one point I understand made a statement that in the closing days of earth's history that some of the brightest lights would go out and become the greatest enemies of God's work.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
Thank you for your personal assessment Jim. Like EGW did for anyone opposed to her, I suppose you place me under the banner of Satan. I'm really more interested in listing the 15 proofs that she called a 'perfect chain of Biblical truth'. Mrs. White made a LOT of statements toward anybody who would think to put her words to the test. If you believe that the SDA message is the truth, then you should be thrilled that it has opportunity to shine here as we put it to the test!
Looking forward to the discussion as we explore the ACTUAL proofs that founded the Investigative Judgment!
__________________ Freeindeed So if the Son makes you FREE, you will be FREE INDEED. Jn 8:36
So Christ has truly set us FREE. Now make sure that you stay FREE, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Gal 5:1
Seeing this makes me wonder how everything is going to work out in the end. Here we have a former SDA pastor who for over 30 years preached the gospel and believed the truth with all of his heart but now is working desparately to chip away at the very foundation of that very faith.
It makes my heart sick to see this and to read the comments being made that have become so very slightly skewed from the truth in the Bible. The most powerful deceptions are the ones that contain 99% truth but 1% error. That tiny little ink spot or fly dropping in the annointment.
Indeed Mrs White at one point I understand made a statement that in the closing days of earth's history that some of the brightest lights would go out and become the greatest enemies of God's work.
God Bless
Jim Larmore
If you don't know already, you'd be surprised to know that most SDA colleges have been teach NLP (a form of hypnotism) to the students, young pastors. No wonder they are so confused.
__________________ John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
If you don't know already, you'd be surprised to know that most SDA colleges have been teach NLP (a form of hypnotism) to the students, young pastors. No wonder they are so confused.
Help me out here. What is NLP? I also have a degree in Psychology and I'm either drawing a blank or it's really late...
Can you provide evidence that this is a form of hypnotism that is used on students in SDA schools studying to be pastors? Or is this just a theory of yours?
__________________ Freeindeed So if the Son makes you FREE, you will be FREE INDEED. Jn 8:36
So Christ has truly set us FREE. Now make sure that you stay FREE, and don’t get tied up again in slavery to the law. Gal 5:1
How many of you have ever read William Miller's 15 proofs for arriving at the October 22, 1844 date for Christ's second coming? Of course you know that they first pointed to 1843, and then the Spring of 1844, which both came and went before coming up with the Oct. 22, 1844 date.
We all know that Jesus did NOT come back on that day, but the next day (Oct. 23, 1844) Hiram Edson had a vision confirming that the dates were still valid but for an event that supposedly took place in heaven the day before. It wasn't long and EGW had her own vision confirming the only vision Edson ever had. She then wrote that God had 'shown' her that he had directed Miller to all of his conclusions, that he had shown Miller the correct interpretation of prophecy, and that it was a "perfect chain of biblical truth" that was given to him.
I would like for this thread to be a presentation and discussion of the 15 proofs that God supposedly gave to William Miller. I would like to reconstruct them here so that we can analyze if they should stand as Ellen White says they should.
And, just so that everyone is clear, I want to take an honest look at these 15 proofs or "perfect chain of biblical truth" because they are the very foundation for the Investigative Judgment, the ONLY unique doctrine to Seventh-day Adventism. The bottom line is do Miller's proofs stand up to scrutiny? Are they the truth?
This will NOT be a discussion about the Investigative Judgement doctrine. It will ONLY be a discussion about William Miller's 15 proofs, the very foundation of the IJ. If you want to discuss the IJ without taking an honest look at its foundation, start your own thread.
So, if anyone has those original 15 proofs please post them with the proof number in the title line (i.e. Proof #1, Proof #2, etc.). Discussion can follow each one. Please read the proofs before responding.
I read over the proofs. I didn't even know they existed. All I can say is Did William Miller later renounce any significance to those dates or did he also believe they were significant like SDAs do now?
__________________ 2 Corinthians 5 "17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new...20 Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God. 21 For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him."
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