SDAs & Formers - W. Miller's 15 "PROOFS" for Oct. 22, 1844

freeindeed2 · #11 24th February 2007, 10:51 AM

I prove it by the time given by Moses, in the 26th chapter of Leviticus, being seven times that the people of God are to be in bondage to the kingdoms of this world; or in Babylon, literal and mystical; which seven times cannot be undertsood less than seven times 360 revolutions of the earth in its orbit, making 2520 years. I believe this began according to Jeremiah 15:4, --"And I will cause them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth, because of Manasseh, the son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, for that which he did in Jerusalem," and Isa. 7:8, "For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Resin: and within three score and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people,"-- when Manasseh was carried captive to Babylon, and Israel,--see chronology, 2 Chron. 33:9, "So Manasseh made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to err, and to do worse than the heathen, whom the Lord had destroyed before the children of Israel,"--the 677th year B.C. Then take 677 out of the 2520, leaves A.D. 1843, when the punishment of the people of God will end.

Question:
Is this a reasonable and correct conclusion to draw to form the first link for, in EGW's words, Miller's "perfect chain of biblical truth" to arrive at the date of 1843 for Christ's return (and later the Investigative Judgment)?
Are the 'proof-texts' Miller used given in their context? Are they making reference to the second coming? Are they time prophecies? Is there any reason to link Lev 26:18, Jeremiah 15:4, Isa 7:8, and 2 Chron 33:9 together to arrive at Miller's conclusion? Check them out in their context and then let's discuss the first 'proof'.

Source:
Kai Arasola, The End of Historicism, (Sigtuna, Sweden: Datem Publishing, 1990) pages 219-225

Dr. Arasola (an SDA) analyzed W. Miller's methods of Bible study and his conclusions, including his "15 proofs" (he reprinted them in the book) which were instrumental to arriving at the three different dates for Christ's second coming (and soon after their failure, the same dates were used for the basis of the Investigative Judgment).

tall73 · #12 25th February 2007, 06:34 AM

Neuro-linguistic programming.

Do a search on that and the seminary and you might come up with something.

Anyway, OntheDL, are you suggesting that everyone who has ever had questions on the IJ or on Miller has been subjected to hypnotism? What about those in the past century before this started?

Here is a cached version of an old page on the subject.:
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache...ient=firefox-a

Here is a timeline of Adventist apostasies:

http://www.lightministries.com/SDA/id1217.htm

1989 - In the NAD guidelines for "Homecoming Emphasis During Year of Evangelism" on p 37, lines
30-35, it states the General Conferences' desire that every SDA pastor in the North American Division be trained in Neuro-Linguistic Programming hypnosis, and that 200 SDA pastors have already been certified as trainers. In Selected Messages, book 2, 351, God tells us that when we see this, we are "near the close of probation."

Now, let's say for the sake of argument that we grant that NLP is

a. taught at the Seminary
b. effective
c. hypnosis

It obviously would take a few years to get them to that point. But that still post-dates Ford by some time. It postdates Cottrel's early misgivings during the writing of the commentary. It predates a fair number of other Adventist detractors.

I think we need to settle the issues on the evidence, not no allegations of hypnotism.

tall73 · #13 25th February 2007, 06:54 AM

Originally Posted by freeindeed2

I prove it by the time given by Moses, in the 26th chapter of Leviticus, being seven times that the people of God are to be in bondage to the kingdoms of this world; or in Babylon, literal and mystical; which seven times cannot be undertsood less than seven times 360 revolutions of the earth in its orbit, making 2520 years. I believe this began according to Jeremiah 15:4, --"And I will cause them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth, because of Manasseh, the son of Hezekiah, king of Judah, for that which he did in Jerusalem," and Isa. 7:8, "For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Resin: and within three score and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people,"-- when Manasseh was carried captive to Babylon, and Israel,--see chronology, 2 Chron. 33:9, "So Manasseh made Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to err, and to do worse than the heathen, whom the Lord had destroyed before the children of Israel,"--the 677th year B.C. Then take 677 out of the 2520, leaves A.D. 1843, when the punishment of the people of God will end.

Question:
Is this a reasonable and correct conclusion to draw to form the first link for, in EGW's words, Miller's "perfect chain of biblical truth" to arrive at the date of 1843 for Christ's return (and later the Investigative Judgment)?
Are the 'proof-texts' Miller used given in their context? Are they making reference to the second coming? Are they time prophecies? Is there any reason to link Lev 26:18, Jeremiah 15:4, Isa 7:8, and 2 Chron 33:9 together to arrive at Miller's conclusion? Check them out in their context and then let's discuss the first 'proof'.

A. Can you get me a link to these proofs that come from a source we can all recognize?

B. It seems he took the KJV "times" to be actual chronological periods rather than multiplied punishments.

And 360 rotations?

In any case, EGW's view seemed to be that Miller was wrong on some of these things but that God hid it to serve His purpoes of bringing attention to the movement.

Not arguing that one way or the other, just mentioning it.

Sophia7 · #14 25th February 2007, 07:50 AM

Here is what EGW wrote about Miller's chart:

September 23, the Lord showed me that He had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people, and that efforts must be redoubled in this gathering time. In the scattering, Israel was smitten and torn, but now in the gathering time God will heal and bind up His people. In the scattering, efforts made to spread the truth had but little effect, accomplished but little or nothing; but in the gathering, when God has set His hand to gather His people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect. All should be united and zealous in the work. I saw that it was wrong for any to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering; for if God should do no more for us now than He did then, Israel would never be gathered. I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed. {EW 74.1}

And here is where she talked about the "perfect chain of truth" (note that she wasn't referring specifically to Miller's proofs here):

God sent His angel to move upon the heart of a farmer who had not believed the Bible, to lead him to search the prophecies. Angels of God repeatedly visited that chosen one, to guide his mind and open to his understanding prophecies which had ever been dark to God's people. The commencement of the chain of truth was given to him, and he was led on to search for link after link, until he looked with wonder and admiration upon the Word of God. He saw there a perfect chain of truth. That Word which he had regarded as uninspired now opened before his vision in its beauty and glory. He saw that one portion of Scripture explains another, and when one passage was closed to his understanding, he found in another part of the Word that which explained it. He regarded the sacred Word of God with joy and with the deepest respect and awe. {EW 229.1}

A little more on her views of William Miller and the mistake in prophetic interpretation:

I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth. Ministers were convinced of the correctness of the positions taken on the prophetic periods, and some renounced their pride, and left their salaries and their churches to go forth from place to place to give the message. But as the message from heaven could find a place in the hearts of but few of the professed ministers of Christ, the work was laid upon many who were not preachers. Some left their fields to sound the message, while others were called from their shops and their merchandise. And even some professional men were compelled to leave their professions to engage in the unpopular work of giving the first angel's message. . . . {EW 232.2}

The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. "No man knoweth the day nor the hour," was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer. Neither would be instructed and corrected by those who were pointing to the year when they believed the
234
prophetic periods would run out, and to the signs which showed Christ near, even at the doors. Many shepherds of the flock, who professed to love Jesus, said that they had no opposition to the preaching of Christ's coming, but they objected to the definite time. God's all-seeing eye read their hearts. They did not love Jesus near. They knew that their unchristian lives would not stand the test, for they were not walking in the humble path marked out by Him. These false shepherds stood in the way of the work of God. The truth spoken in its convincing power aroused the people, and like the jailer, they began to inquire, "What must I do to be saved?" But these shepherds stepped in between the truth and the people, and preached smooth things to lead them from the truth. They united with Satan and his angels, crying, "Peace, peace," when there was no peace. Those who loved their ease and were content with their distance from God would not be aroused from their carnal security. I saw that angels of God marked it all; the garments of those unconsecrated shepherds were covered with the blood of souls. {EW 233.2}

Ministers who would not accept this saving message themselves hindered those who would have received it. The blood of souls is upon them. Preachers and people joined to oppose this message from heaven and to persecute William Miller and those who united with him in the work. Falsehoods were circulated to injure his influence; and at different times after he had plainly declared the counsel of God, applying cutting truths to the hearts of his hearers, great rage was kindled against him, and as he left the place of meeting, some waylaid him in order to take his life. But angels of God were sent to protect him, and they led him safely away from the angry mob. His work was not yet finished. . . .
235
{EW 234.1}

I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. His hand covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment. The time passed, and those who had looked with joyful expectation for their Saviour were sad and disheartened, while those who had not loved the appearing of Jesus, but embraced the message through fear, were pleased that He did not come at the time of expectation. Their profession had not affected the heart and purified the life. The passing of the time was well calculated to reveal such hearts.
236
They were the first to turn and ridicule the sorrowful, disappointed ones who really loved the appearing of their Saviour. I saw the wisdom of God in proving His people and giving them a searching test to discover those who would shrink and turn back in the hour of trial. {EW 235.3}

Jesus and all the heavenly host looked with sympathy and love upon those who had with sweet expectation longed to see Him whom their souls loved. Angels were hovering around them, to sustain them in the hour of their trial. Those who had neglected to receive the heavenly message were left in darkness, and God's anger was kindled against them, because they would not receive the light which He had sent them from heaven. Those faithful, disappointed ones, who could not understand why their Lord did not come, were not left in darkness. Again they were led to their Bibles to search the prophetic periods. The hand of the Lord was removed from the figures, and the mistake was explained. They saw that the prophetic periods reached to 1844, and that the same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844. Light from the Word of God shone upon their position, and they discovered a tarrying time--"Though it [the vision] tarry, wait for it." In their love for Christ's immediate coming, they had overlooked the tarrying of the vision, which was calculated to manifest the true waiting ones. Again they had a point of time. Yet I saw that many of them could not rise above their severe disappointment to possess that degree of zeal and energy which had marked their faith in 1843. {EW 236.1}

Sophia7 · #15 25th February 2007, 08:10 AM

Originally Posted by OntheDL

And I don't think they ever dated to the spring because the whole IJ was the antitypical application of the fall harvest feast. I'd like to see an original quote from W Miller that dated it to the spring time.

Yes, they had dated it to the spring of 1844 before they arrived at the Oct. 22 date:

Miller and his associates at first believed that the 2300 days would terminate in the spring of 1844, whereas the prophecy points to the autumn of that year. The misapprehension of this point brought disappointment and perplexity to
329
those who had fixed upon the earlier date as the time of the Lord's coming. But this did not in the least affect the strength of the argument showing that the 2300 days terminated in the year 1844, and that the great event represented by the cleansing of the sanctuary must then take place. {GC88 328.3}
_______________________________________________

The testimony of the prophecies which seemed to point to the coming of Christ in the spring of 1844 took deep hold of the minds of the people. As the message went from State to State, there was everywhere awakened widespread interest. Many were convicted that the arguments from the prophetic periods were correct, and, sacrificing their pride of opinion, they joyfully received the truth. {GC88 368.2}
_______________________________________________

When the time passed at which the Lord's coming was first expected,--in the spring of 1844,--those who had looked in faith for his appearing were for a season involved in doubt and uncertainty. While the world regarded them as having been utterly defeated, and proved to have been cherishing a delusion, their source of consolation was still the Word of God. Many continued to search the Scriptures, examining anew the evidences of their faith, and carefully studying the prophecies to obtain further light. The Bible testimony in support of their position seemed clear and conclusive. Signs which could not be mistaken pointed to the coming of Christ as near. The special blessing of the Lord, both in the conversion of sinners and the revival of spiritual life among Christians, had testified that the message was of Heaven. And though the believers could not explain their disappointment, they felt assured that God had led them in their past experience. {GC88 391.1}
_______________________________________________

In the summer of 1844, Adventists discovered the mistake in their former reckoning of the prophetic periods, and settled upon the correct position. The 2300 days of Dan. 8:14, which all believed to extend to the second coming of Christ, had been thought to end in the spring of 1844; but it was now seen that this period extended to the autumn of the same year, and the minds of Adventists were fixed upon this point as the time for the Lord's appearing. The proclamation of this time message was another step in the fulfillment of the parable of the marriage, whose application to the experience of Adventists had already been clearly seen. As in the parable the cry was raised at midnight announcing the approach of the bridegroom, so in the fulfillment, midway between the spring of 1844, when it was first supposed that the 2300 days would close, and the autumn of 1844, at which time it was afterward found
249
that they were really to close, such a cry was raised, in the very words of Scripture: "Behold, the Bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him." {4SP 248.2}

Eila · #16 25th February 2007, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Sophia7

I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed. {EW 74.1}

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this statement?

Sophia7 · #17 25th February 2007, 03:20 PM

Originally Posted by Eila

Am I the only one who sees something wrong with this statement?

No, you're not.

freeindeed2 · #18 25th February 2007, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by tall73

A. Can you get me a link to these proofs that come from a source we can all recognize?

I don't have an online link, but they come from Kai Arasola, The End of Historicism, (Sigtuna, Sweden: Datem Publishing, 1990) pages 219-225

Dr. Arasola (an SDA) analyzed W. Miller's methods of Bible study and his conclusions, including his "15 proofs" (he reprinted them in the book) which were instrumental to arriving at the three different dates for Christ's second coming (and soon after their failure, the same dates were used for the basis of the Investigative Judgment).

Originally Posted by tall73

B. It seems he took the KJV "times" to be actual chronological periods rather than multiplied punishments.

And 360 rotations?

Yes, he did. Which is part of the problem for his first proof.

I'm as stumped as the next guy on 360 rotations.

Originally Posted by tall73

In any case, EGW's view seemed to be that Miller was wrong on some of these things but that God hid it to serve His purpoes of bringing attention to the movement.

Not arguing that one way or the other, just mentioning it.

Right. She's basically blaming God for the error(s), or at least accusing God of perpetuating a lie in order to cause a disappointment on the Millerites.

freeindeed2 · #19 25th February 2007, 07:46 PM

Originally Posted by Sophia7

Here is what EGW wrote about Miller's chart:
September 23, the Lord showed me that He had stretched out His hand the second time to recover the remnant of His people, and that efforts must be redoubled in this gathering time. In the scattering, Israel was smitten and torn, but now in the gathering time God will heal and bind up His people. In the scattering, efforts made to spread the truth had but little effect, accomplished but little or nothing; but in the gathering, when God has set His hand to gather His people, efforts to spread the truth will have their designed effect. All should be united and zealous in the work. I saw that it was wrong for any to refer to the scattering for examples to govern us now in the gathering; for if God should do no more for us now than He did then, Israel would never be gathered. I have seen that the 1843 chart was directed by the hand of the Lord, and that it should not be altered; that the figures were as He wanted them; that His hand was over and hid a mistake in some of the figures, so that none could see it, until His hand was removed. {EW 74.1}

And here is where she talked about the "perfect chain of truth" (note that she wasn't referring specifically to Miller's proofs here):
God sent His angel to move upon the heart of a farmer who had not believed the Bible, to lead him to search the prophecies. Angels of God repeatedly visited that chosen one, to guide his mind and open to his understanding prophecies which had ever been dark to God's people. The commencement of the chain of truth was given to him, and he was led on to search for link after link, until he looked with wonder and admiration upon the Word of God. He saw there a perfect chain of truth. That Word which he had regarded as uninspired now opened before his vision in its beauty and glory. He saw that one portion of Scripture explains another, and when one passage was closed to his understanding, he found in another part of the Word that which explained it. He regarded the sacred Word of God with joy and with the deepest respect and awe. {EW 229.1}

A little more on her views of William Miller and the mistake in prophetic interpretation:
I saw that God was in the proclamation of the time in 1843. It was His design to arouse the people and bring them to a testing point, where they should decide for or against the truth. Ministers were convinced of the correctness of the positions taken on the prophetic periods, and some renounced their pride, and left their salaries and their churches to go forth from place to place to give the message. But as the message from heaven could find a place in the hearts of but few of the professed ministers of Christ, the work was laid upon many who were not preachers. Some left their fields to sound the message, while others were called from their shops and their merchandise. And even some professional men were compelled to leave their professions to engage in the unpopular work of giving the first angel's message. . . . {EW 232.2}

The preaching of definite time called forth great opposition from all classes, from the minister in the pulpit down to the most reckless, heaven-daring sinner. "No man knoweth the day nor the hour," was heard from the hypocritical minister and the bold scoffer. Neither would be instructed and corrected by those who were pointing to the year when they believed the
234
prophetic periods would run out, and to the signs which showed Christ near, even at the doors. Many shepherds of the flock, who professed to love Jesus, said that they had no opposition to the preaching of Christ's coming, but they objected to the definite time. God's all-seeing eye read their hearts. They did not love Jesus near. They knew that their unchristian lives would not stand the test, for they were not walking in the humble path marked out by Him. These false shepherds stood in the way of the work of God. The truth spoken in its convincing power aroused the people, and like the jailer, they began to inquire, "What must I do to be saved?" But these shepherds stepped in between the truth and the people, and preached smooth things to lead them from the truth. They united with Satan and his angels, crying, "Peace, peace," when there was no peace. Those who loved their ease and were content with their distance from God would not be aroused from their carnal security. I saw that angels of God marked it all; the garments of those unconsecrated shepherds were covered with the blood of souls. {EW 233.2}
Ministers who would not accept this saving message themselves hindered those who would have received it. The blood of souls is upon them. Preachers and people joined to oppose this message from heaven and to persecute William Miller and those who united with him in the work. Falsehoods were circulated to injure his influence; and at different times after he had plainly declared the counsel of God, applying cutting truths to the hearts of his hearers, great rage was kindled against him, and as he left the place of meeting, some waylaid him in order to take his life. But angels of God were sent to protect him, and they led him safely away from the angry mob. His work was not yet finished. . . .
235
{EW 234.1}
I saw the people of God joyful in expectation, looking for their Lord. But God designed to prove them. His hand covered a mistake in the reckoning of the prophetic periods. Those who were looking for their Lord did not discover this mistake, and the most learned men who opposed the time also failed to see it. God designed that His people should meet with a disappointment. The time passed, and those who had looked with joyful expectation for their Saviour were sad and disheartened, while those who had not loved the appearing of Jesus, but embraced the message through fear, were pleased that He did not come at the time of expectation. Their profession had not affected the heart and purified the life. The passing of the time was well calculated to reveal such hearts.
236
They were the first to turn and ridicule the sorrowful, disappointed ones who really loved the appearing of their Saviour. I saw the wisdom of God in proving His people and giving them a searching test to discover those who would shrink and turn back in the hour of trial. {EW 235.3}
Jesus and all the heavenly host looked with sympathy and love upon those who had with sweet expectation longed to see Him whom their souls loved. Angels were hovering around them, to sustain them in the hour of their trial. Those who had neglected to receive the heavenly message were left in darkness, and God's anger was kindled against them, because they would not receive the light which He had sent them from heaven. Those faithful, disappointed ones, who could not understand why their Lord did not come, were not left in darkness. Again they were led to their Bibles to search the prophetic periods. The hand of the Lord was removed from the figures, and the mistake was explained. They saw that the prophetic periods reached to 1844, and that the same evidence which they had presented to show that the prophetic periods closed in 1843, proved that they would terminate in 1844. Light from the Word of God shone upon their position, and they discovered a tarrying time--"Though it [the vision] tarry, wait for it." In their love for Christ's immediate coming, they had overlooked the tarrying of the vision, which was calculated to manifest the true waiting ones. Again they had a point of time. Yet I saw that many of them could not rise above their severe disappointment to possess that degree of zeal and energy which had marked their faith in 1843. {EW 236.1}

She wrote a lot more than this even, and I'll focus on what EGW had to say about Miller and his "15 proofs" after they have all been presented.

freeindeed2 · #20 25th February 2007, 07:53 PM

It is proved typically by the year of release. See Deut. 15:1,2: "At the end of every seven years thou shalt make a release; and this is the manner of the release; every creditor that lendeth aught unto his neighbor shall release it; he shall not exact it of his neighbor or of his brother, because it is called the Lord's release." Also Jer. 34:14: At the end of seven years let ye go every man his brother a Hebrew, which hath been sold unto thee, and when he hath served thee six years, thou shalt let him go free from thee; but your fathers hearkened not unto me, neither inclined their ear." We are, by this type, taught that the people of God will be delivered from their servitude and bondage when they have served their 7 prophetic years. 7 times 360 years is 2520. Beginning with the captivity of Israel and the king of Judah, Manasseh, 677 B.C., must end in A.D. 1843, when the children of God will be released from all bondage and slavery.

Again, are the texts in context with the second coming of Christ? Do you agree with Miller's methods for arriving at the 1843 date?

Source:
Kai Arasola, The End of Historicism, (Sigtuna, Sweden: Datem Publishing, 1990) pages 219-225

Dr. Arasola (an SDA) analyzed W. Miller's methods of Bible study and his conclusions, including his "15 proofs" (he reprinted them in the book) which were instrumental to arriving at the three different dates for Christ's second coming (and soon after their failure, the same dates were used for the basis of the Investigative Judgment).