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27th July 2003, 11:29 AM
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Hello everyone, this is a quesion that has burned in my mind since 1998. My area of Buffalo is home to killer James Kopp, who shot and killed abortion provider Barnett Slepian. While his cause is noble, his method goes against the teachings that all life is sacred, and that we should love our enemies. But, that aside, does the end justify the means?I mean, that is one less man to kill innocent children. But, thanks on advance for all your wise words.
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27th July 2003, 11:43 AM
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Reps: 130,943,950,900,702,928 (power: 130,943,950,900,744) | | | No the end does not justify the means. God says that vengeance is His. You may see it as one less man to kill innocent children, I see it as one less sinner without the opportunity to repent and turn to Christ.
We should pray for the conversion of the hardened evil hearts of abortionists. We should pray for the protection of the unborn, we should be actively involved in pro life efforts through our dioceses and understand the Church teachings of the sacredness of human life and articulate them properly.
But imo, we should never rejoice over or condone a murder because the victim was a murderer him/herself. In my opinion, that wouldn't make us any different than the evil abortionist.
Michelle
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27th July 2003, 02:24 PM
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Reps: 10,650,469,354,350,864 (power: 10,650,469,354,380) | | | This is the way I look at it. Killing an abortionist is wrong. That being said, what would you do in the following situation: (this argument has won me many debates in school):
You are in a store and you have a CCW and carry a hand gun. A man comes in with a huge knife and grabs two little girls. The man is obviously crazy, and kills the first little girl.
He now has the other girl in his grasp, with the knife to her throat. You come out and pull out your gun, you have a clear shot at his head, what do you do?
Most people would shoot. Why, because the man poses an INSTANT threat to the little girl...
I'm not saying I agree with people who kill abortionists, but I understand...
__________________ "Everything you see,
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Last edited by JeffreyLloyd; 27th July 2003 at 02:57 PM.
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27th July 2003, 02:50 PM
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27th July 2003, 02:52 PM
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Reps: 130,943,950,900,702,928 (power: 130,943,950,900,744) | | | I see your point Jefferey, but look at it this way. How many people would have felt justified killing Norma McCorvey? She was, afterall, responsible for legalized abortion, according to alot of people, and assisted in the ending of many unborn lives.
Did you read the articles about her conversion? Now what if someone would have decided it was okay to shoot her?
Michelle
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Sometimes I wonder if I am patriotic enough. Yes, I want to kill people, but on both sides. --Jack Handey |
27th July 2003, 02:55 PM
| | Ave Maria, Gratia plena!
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Reps: 10,650,469,354,350,864 (power: 10,650,469,354,380) | | | My point was not to the woman, but the "doctors" killing these unborn children.
If I was to make abortion illegal, I would hold the abortion "doctor" more responsible then the woman.
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27th July 2003, 03:03 PM
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Reps: 130,943,950,900,702,928 (power: 130,943,950,900,744) | | http://www.aboutabortions.com/Confess.html [Dr. Nathanson has since converted to Catholicism, being baptised in 1996.]
Michelle
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Sometimes I wonder if I am patriotic enough. Yes, I want to kill people, but on both sides. --Jack Handey |
27th July 2003, 03:12 PM
| | Ave Maria, Gratia plena!
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Reps: 10,650,469,354,350,864 (power: 10,650,469,354,380) | | | Great article Michellle.
Remember, I think blowing up abortion "hospitals" and killing abortion "doctors" is wrong in everyway.
I just understand the reasoning behind it.
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27th July 2003, 03:24 PM
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| | Join Date: 5th February 2002 Location: South Carolina
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Reps: 224,390 (power: 259) | | Originally Posted by Polish Guy Wo Loves God Hello everyone, this is a quesion that has burned in my mind since 1998. My area of Buffalo is home to killer James Kopp, who shot and killed abortion provider Barnett Slepian. While his cause is noble, his method goes against the teachings that all life is sacred, and that we should love our enemies. But, that aside, does the end justify the means? I mean, that is one less man to kill innocent children. But, thanks on advance for all your wise words.
No, the end does not justify the means. Originally Posted by Catechism of the Catholic Church 1755 A morally good act requires the goodness of the object, of the end, and of the circumstances together. An evil end corrupts the action, even if the object is good in itself (such as praying and fasting "in order to be seen by men").
The object of the choice can by itself vitiate an act in its entirety. There are some concrete acts - such as fornication - that it is always wrong to choose, because choosing them entails a disorder of the will, that is, a moral evil.
I underlined "such as fornication" for a reason. Replace fornication with murder and you have the same situation. Murder is always a moral evil, and is therefore not morally good under any circumstances.
May God have mercy on both men.
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27th July 2003, 03:28 PM
| | Goodbye, my puppy
| | Join Date: 5th February 2002 Location: South Carolina
Posts: 24,145
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Reps: 224,390 (power: 259) | | Originally Posted by JeffreyLloyd You are in a store and you have a CCW and carry a hand gun. A man comes in with a huge knife and grabs two little girls. The man is obviously crazy, and kills the first little girl.
He now has the other girl in his grasp, with the knife to her throat. You come out and pull out your gun, you have a clear shot at his head, what do you do?
Most people would shoot. Why, because the man poses an INSTANT threat to the little girl...
You are comparing apples and oranges here. You are correct to emphasis the word "instant" because that is entirely what seperates the two issues. In the instance you have described, the man has already killed and for all intents and purposes, seems to be ready and willing to kill again. In order to save the life of the little girl, and everyone else nearby including yourself, it is morally acceptable to take this man down.
However, in regards to the abortionist, you do not know from one day to the next whether or not his conscience will finally get the best of him. Perhaps one day this guy will wake up and realize the horrors that he is commiting. It may take years, it may never happen at all, but we cannot deny him that opportunity to repent.
NOTE: You also do realize that the Church has never called abortion murder, right?
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Out here in the fields, I fight for my meals. I get my back into my living. I don't need to fight, to prove I'm right. I don't need to be forgiven. | | |
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