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  #51  
Old 30th September 2009, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cremi View Post
ugh...

I better not say anything...I'm a woman.
Originally Posted by WhollyRabbit View Post
Great, because that's what Paul said you should do.

What you should do is to read and study the New Testament. Don't place any faith in what your minister or Sunday School teacher has told you. (Place your faith in God.) Read it yourself and make up your own mind. When you are judged on Judgement Day, Christ Jesus isn't going to ask your minister if you are saved...He's going to ask YOU.
Originally Posted by DerSchweik View Post
Guys, this convo is 7 months old. I doubt anyone is listening...
Originally Posted by WhollyRabbit View Post
I suppose that depends upon what a "convo" is.

So, in your mind everything that could be said has been said, or the things that have been said are outdated and should summarily be dismissed.

Some would call that arrogance on your part.
Friend, I'm not sure why the chip on the shoulder or the attitude. The quote you responded to was indeed 7 months old (early February); moreover Cremi stated she wasn't going to say anything more [on this topic]. All DS did was point that out imo. Not sure how the rest of what you said could be construed from that, let alone such a judgment leveled or justfiied...
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  #52  
Old 20th October 2009, 05:26 PM
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There are the saints though eg; saints and angels.. one morning, and I am not making this up.. after a night of singing loudly along with some praise music.. the next morning I was awakened by the mosty lovely voices of angels, quite feminine, singing 'alleluiah alleluiah alleluiah..'

not kidding. happened about a year ago.
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  #53  
Old 14th June 2010, 06:25 PM
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IS IT RIGHT TO CALL MEN REVEREND?
Author of this tract unknown
From: www.churches-of-christ.net/tracts

GOOD MORNING, REVEREND!

In my business, social, and church life, people are continually greeting me by saying, "Good morning, Reverend." Why? Because I am a preacher, I am an evangelist in the Church of Christ, and these good people want to show respect for my work and for me. Perhaps it will come as a shock to some of my friends as they hear me say that I do not want to be called "Reverend".

I do not make this request because I think that I am too good for the title. I do not make this request because I want to be different from all others. After many hours of Bible Study, I have come to the conclusion that it is wrong for me to want the title, and it is wrong for me to encourage people to use it by my accpetance of it.

Do you know where the word "Reverend" is found in the Bible? Do you know how many times it is found? Do you know the definition of the word? Perhaps you have never given this much thought. I believe that you will agree with me that it would be interesting, as well as desirable, to know the answers to these questions.

The word "reverned" is found only once in the pages of the Bible! In our King James Version of the Bible, we read the following words:

"He sent redemption unto His people: He hath commanded His covenant forever: holy and reverend is His name." (Psalm 111:9 KJV)

If you will be kind enough to read the entire 111th Psalm, you will find that the subject under consideration at this point is the holiness, purity, fear, terribleness, and reverence in which we are to hold the name of God. By inspiration of the Holy Spirit, David teaches "Holy and reverend is His name."

Would you want to take an attribute of God, which is applied exclusively to Him, and apply this to me? NO! I am not, nor will I ever be, great enough to wear "reverend" as a title!

Jesus vigorously condemned the use of religious titles. Listen to Him as He speaks to us in Matthew 23:8-10:

"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in Heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ."

Translation:
"You must not be called 'Teacher,' because you are all brothers of one another and have only one Teacher. And you must not call anyone here on earth 'Father,' because you have only the one Father in Heaven. Nor should you be called 'Leader,' because your one and only leader is the Messiah." (TEV)

Can we be mistaken concerning the message He has for us? I do not believe so! This is a wonderful teaching... "all ye are brethren" ...Christ has made us equal. The divisions of "clergy" and "laity" are foreign to the teachings of Jesus.

Jesus alos taught against any marks of distinction among His people. The religious leaders of Jesus' day were filled with pride and desired to be set apart from all other. Hear Jesus again as He speaks in Mark 12:38-39:

"And He said unto them in His doctrine, 'Beware of the scribes, which love to go in long clothing, and love salutations in the marketplaces, and the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:'"

Translation:
"As He taught them, He said, 'Watch out for the teachers of the Law, who like to walk around in their long robes and be greeted with respect in the marketplace, who choose the reserved seats in the synagogues and the best places at feasts.'" (TEV)

When men take to themselves religious titles and special clothing, Jesus says to "beware" of them!

Perhaps you are asking by now, "Well, how should we greet you, what should we call you?" This question is certainly in order. If you are a Christian, why not call me brother. If you do not desire to call me brother, why not refer to me as mister. This way, we make no distinction between me and other male members of the congregation!

Peter, that great apostle of Jesus, wrote:

"If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God..." (1 Peter 4:11)

Translation:
"Whoever preaches must preach God's messages;..." (1 Peter 4:11 TEV)

The word "oracles" means "utterances" ("messages"). In calling a fellow Christian "brother", and refusing to call any man "reverend", we are obeying this command.

I feel that most people are honest and want to do want is right. In order to accomplish our task, let us return to the Bible for all our beliefs and practices. This is right and good. We of the Church of Christ are diligently seeking to do this. We invite you to attend worship services with us, as we use the Bible as our only rule of faith and practice, that together we may restore the Word of God to its rightful place!

Last edited by BlueJay180; 16th June 2010 at 05:53 PM.
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  #54  
Old 14th June 2010, 09:02 PM
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It would probably be better to create new threads for different discussions that you want to start rather than just dumping them into this older thread. If I were you, I would start a new thread with this post.
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Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
Rom 10:17 So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
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  #55  
Old 19th June 2010, 07:05 PM
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LET THE BIBLE SPEAK ABOUT PENTECOSTALISM (OR THE CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT)
Author of this tract unknown
From www.churches-of-christ.net/tracts

INTRODUCTION
Pentecostalism (or the Charismatic movement) is a rapidly spreading movement. Its members now number in the millions around the world. The very fact of its existence has kept many sincere people from finding simple New Testament Christianity. They have been taken in by this movement which had its beginning some 1900 years after the establishment of the church of the New Testament.

Pentecostalism is not taught in the Word of God. As a matter of fact, it contradicts the Bible at many critical points. It is the purpose of this tract to show the contradictions and thus help the reader to see the difference between Pentecostalism and New Testament Christianity.

THE HOLY SPIRIT
1. Pentecostals (or Charismatics) teach that the Holy Spirit operates directly upon the heart of the sinner today.

The Bible teaches that one is converted when he obets the gospel which has already been revealed by the Spirit. (2 Thessalonians 1:7-9), (1 Corinthians 2). Observe every case of conversion in the book of Acts.

2. Pentecostals (or Charismatics) teach that the Holy Spirit operates directly upon the Christian, giving him leading, guidance, and direction separate and apart from the Bible.

The Bible teaches that the Scriptures are complete and will completely furnish us unto every good work. (2 Timothy 3:16-17), (2 Peter 1:3).

3. Pentecostals (or Charismatics) teach that the written Word of God without a direct operation of the Holy Spirit is powerless.

The Bible teaches that as it is, it is able to save and sanctify man as he is. (Hebrews 4:12); 1 Thessalonians 2:13; Romans 1:16).

HOLY SPIRIT BAPTISM
1. Pentecostals teach that Holy Spirit baptism is available for Christians today.

The Bible teaches that the promise of Holy Spirit baptism was fulfilled on Pentecost and at the household of Cornelius (Joel 2:28-32; Acts 2, 10, & 11).

2. Pentecostals teach that there are at least two baptisms available today; water baptism and Holy Spirit baptism.

The Bible teaches that there is one baptism (Ephesians 4:5), and that one baptism is in water (Acts 10:47) and is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38). If the ONE baptism of Ephesians 4:5 is Holy Spirit baptism, then there is no forgiveness of sins today. (Acts 2:38; 1 Peter 3:21). This point alone should cause all sincere seekers of salvation to reject Pentecostalism.

3. Pentecostals teach there is a continuing need for Holy Spirit baptism.

The bible teaches that man's every spiritual need is provided in Christ (Ephesians 1:3) and in the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

GIFTS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT
1. Pentecostals teach that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are available to Christians today.

The Bible teaches that the gifts of the Spirit were temporary (1 Corinthians 13:8) and that when the revelation of God was completed they were done away (1 Corinthians 13:9-12).

2. Some Pentecostals teach that "tongues" are senseless jabbering.

The New Testament teaches that they are known languages.

3. Pentecostals emphasize speaking in tongues and interpretation of tongues above other gifts of the Spirit.

The Bible teaches that in the New Testament times each gift served a special purpose (1 Corinthians 12-14). Paul warned against emphasizing tongues above prophecy in the assembly of the saints (1 Corinthians 14:1-5).

4. Pentecostals give little time to the gift of prophecy.

The Bible shows the importance of prophecy in the New Testament church (1 Corinthians 14:1-5).

5. Pentecostals claim to perform miracles and healings.

The New Testament teaches that miracles and healings were generally done to confirm the work (Mark 16:20; Hebrews 2:4) and that the miracles of Christ were done to make men believe He was the Son of God (John 20:30-31). Experience also shows the claims of Pentecostals to fall far short. They cannot raise the dead (Matthew 9), strike blind those who oppose their work (Acts 13), get their tax money miraculously from the mouth of a fish (Matthew 17:27), drink poison without getting sick or dying (Mark 16:18), stop storms (Matthew 8:26), and other things which were done in the New Testament times.

6. Pentecostals contend for "laying on of hands" today.

The Bible teaches that the gifts measure in the first century church was given by the laying on of the APOSTLES' hands (Acts 8:18, 19:1-6; Romans 1:11; 2 Timothy 1:5-6) and was limited to them. When the last Apostle died and the last one on whom they had laid their hands died, then the spiritual gifts ceased.

SOME CONSEQUENCES OF PENTECOSTALISM
1. Pentecostalism causes one to reject the power of God's written Word.

Yet the Bible: (a) is God's power to save (Romans 1:16), (b) produces faith (Romans 10:17), (c) has power to convert (Psalm 19:7), (d) is powerful to beget (1 Peter 1:22-23), (e) has power to make us free from sin (John 8:32), and (f) has power to give us light (Psalm 119:105).

2. Pentecostalism causes one to become spiritually lopsided.

Those who become involved in it can think of liitle other than speaking in tongues, Holy Spirit baptism, etc. This causes them to neglect everything else and thus they become spiritually lopsided.

3. Pentecostalism causes one to be filled with spiritual arrogance.

There is an air of superiority among those who claim to have experienced the so-called baptism of the Spirit over those who have had no such experience.

4. Claiming to be spiritual, Pentecostalism causes the carnal problem of division.

The true Pentecostal is never satisfied to keep his experience to himself. He must share it with others. It has caused trouble wherever it has gone.

5. Pentecostalism causes one to reject the teaching of the New Testament concerning:

Salvation, the church, sanctification, and other subjects which are essential to salvation.

6. Pentecostalism will cause one to lose his soul.

To accept false teaching is to go in error (2 Timothy 3:7-9; 1 Timothy 6:3-6; 2 Peter 2). To go into error is to be lost (2 Peter 2:20-22).

CONCLUSION
In view of the errors taught by Pentecostalism, we would certainly encourage all to be careful to obey God's Word and leave the fallacies of Pentecostalism to those who care not for their soul.

Last edited by BlueJay180; 3rd July 2010 at 09:33 PM.
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  #56  
Old 29th June 2010, 06:20 PM
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I'd like to ask you again to start a new thread for each of the discussions that you think are worth having here. There are a few reasons I'm asking you to do this. Firstly, it keeps the thread focused on a single issue rather than jumping all over the place. This makes the discussion focused and results in better studying for everyone else. Secondly, it makes it easier to search through the information and find what I needed at a later date and time. Finally, it keeps an old thread from being resurrected and older discussions stay sorted.

Originally Posted by BlueJay180 View Post
LET THE BIBLE SPEAK ABOUT PENTECOSTALISM (OR THE CHARISMATIC MOVEMENT)
Author of this tract unknown
From www.churches-of-christ.net/tracts
I don't mind if you have thoughts on a give topic, but if you're going to cite a source, please don't paste the entire source into a thread. Simply provide the link and if I (or others) am interested I will go and read it.
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Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned.
Col 2:12 having been buried with him in baptism, wherein ye were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
Rom 10:9 because if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, and shalt believe in thy heart that God raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved
Rom 10:17 So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
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  #57  
Old 13th July 2010, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by BlueJay180 View Post
What does God's Word say about tatoos? You can find that passage of scripture in Leviticus 19:28 which says "You will not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor print any marks upon you. I am the LORD." - NKJV. A paraphrased version would say this as well "(Do not) tatoo yourselves or cut gashes in your body to mourn for the dead. I am the LORD." - TEV. I have seen a report on The 700 Club/CBN News that our brothers and sisters in Christ are getting tatoos with biblical, religious, and spiritual designs. What God said in that scripture is right. We should never get any tatoos at all no matter what it looks like and God means it. If you don't believe me, read that scripture in His Word. I will have more later on this thread, Lord willing...
I'm pretty sure what most people today here in the U.S. who get tattoos, don't do it for the dead, or to mourn the dead. So I don't see how this scripture is relevant to what is going on today, which is a completely different practice. Scripture also says don't eat meat sacrificed to Idols. Does that too mean we aren't supposed to eat meat at all? Same principle.
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  #58  
Old 25th July 2010, 10:11 PM
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COUNTDOWN TO ARMAGEDDON????
From: www.churches-of-christ.net/tracts

INTRODUCTION
Increasingly, the attention of the world is being drawn to the Middle East. This is due, in part, to the combustible nature of the political situation in that part of the world and the impact which events there are bound to have on the fragile possibilities for world peace. However, a second factor which has helped to focus attention on the Middle Eastern situation is the interest in certain religious theories which can be loosely grouped together under the heading of "Premillennialism".

The book market has been glutted in recent years with Premillenial publications, but the book which has gained the most attention is Hal Lindsey's LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, which has sold several million copies Lindsey's book has served to crystallize interest in the doctrines of Premillenialism. Many have found justification in Lindsey's writings for their belief that the end of the present order of things is very near. Lindsey's book was made into a movie, also titled THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, which further popularized the Premillennial view of the future.

The impact of these theories upon evangelical Christian groups is readily apparent. Many churches which formerly rejected Premillennialism have now endorsed it and are doing all they can to spread it. The growing popularity of these doctrines demands that they be examined carefully in the light of Biblical truth.

WHAT IS PREMILLENNIALISM?
The word millenium is Latin for "1,000 years" and Pre is a prefix meaning "before". Premillennialism, then, is the doctrine that Christ will return to earth propr to establishing a material kingdom which will last for 1,000 years. The supporters of this theory often cite Revelation 20:4 as a basis for their claims. Though there are many varieties of Premillennialism, most of its adherents adopt the following basic assumptions:

1. God's Kingdom is not yet in existence;
2. The Second Coming of Jesus will be preceded by the rise of the antichrist.
3. Judaism will be re-established in its ancient form and the Jewish Temple will be rebuilt on Mount Moriah;
4. There will be two resurrections from the dead;
5. The righteous will be removed from the world for a period known as the Rapture;
6. The world will be plunged into a period of Tribulation which will culminate in the great battle of Armageddon, and
7. Christ will return to earth to establish a material kingdom headquarted in Jerusalem which will usher in a 1,000-year period of peace and prosperity on earth. Let us examine each of these theories in turn.

THE FUTURE KINGDOM THEORY
Premillennialists generally are agreed that Jesus came the first time for the purpose of establishing the Kingdom. However, His rejection by the Jewish nation caused the postponement of His plan. Instead, Jesus established the Church as a kind of stop-gap measure to prepare men for the Kingdom and to last until it was established. They theorize that Jesus is now sitting at God's right hand, temporarily, until He is able to assume the throne of David. (David Brown, CHRIST'S SECOND COMING: WILL IT BE PREMILLENNIAL? 1882, page 120)

The Bible plainly teaches that the Kingdom already exists. John claimed to be a part of it (Revelation 1:9). Paul likewise claimed to be a citizen of it (Colossians 1:13). Jesus showed that the Kingdom was to be associated with the Church (Matthew 16:18-19). The writer of Hebrews asserts that we have received a kingdom which cannot be shaken (Hebrews 12:28). The Church is not a Divine afterthought! The mind of God conceived it before the world began (Ephesians 3:9-10). The Old Testament prophets predicted its establishment (Acts 2:16). Jesus bought it with His own blood (Acts 20:28). Jesus is now ruling His Kingdom from the throne of David (Acts 2:34-36).

Premillennialism is wrong because it has the wrong concept of the Church!

ANTICHRIST
Premillennialists believe that a great world leader will arise in opposition to Christianity. They usually insist that he will be the head of a revived Roman Empire which is often equated with the European Common Market. According to Hal Lindsey: "The way in which this dictator is going to step onto the stage of history will be dramatic. Overnight he will become the by-word of the world...He will have a magnetic personality, be personally attractive, and a powerful speaker. He will be able to mesmerize an audience with his oratory." (THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, p. 108) In the 20th century many possible candidates have been labeled as the antichrist including Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini, Josef Stalin, Anwar Sadat, Henry Kissinger, George Bush, and Saddam Hussein! Lindsey insists that the antichrist is alive somewhere in the world right now!

The Bible, however, teaches that antichrist is not a man but an attitude. The word antichristus really means "opposer of Christ". While this word is not even used in the book of Revelation, it is used several times in the epistles of John. John wrote: "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist; the one who denies the Father and the Son. (1 John 2:22)." Note that John refers to anyone who denies the Father and the Son as antichrist - an opposer of Christ. John gives us a further key to unraveling the identity of antichrist in 1 John 4:3 where he writes: "And every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming and now it is already in the world." Note again that antichrist is not a man but a "spirit" or attitude which prompts men to oppose Christ. The truth is that there are, have been, and will be many antichrists. Each age has its own opposers of the truth. In one age it may be Domitian, in another the papacy, in another Communist dictators, and in another rationalistic scholars who have sought to undermine Biblical truth. John confirms this by saying that there were already many antichrists aborad in his own day (1 John 2:18). The Beast whose number is 666 has appeared and re-appeared all throughout history in the different forms which opposition to Christianity has taken.

Premillennialism is wrong because it has the wrong view of antichrist!

THE REVIVAL OF ISRAEL
Premillennialists believe that the ancient promises to Israel have never been fulfilled and that the Jews have a Divine right to the land of Israel. They believe that it is God's will that the Jews return to Palestine and rebuild their nation. Near the end of 1977, fifteen top evangelical leaders in America, including John Walvoord, Harold Lindsell, and Pat Boone, ran a full page advertisement in the New York Times calling for a U.S. foreign policy which would recognize the unique rights if Israel in the Middle East. Two weeks later, Carl McIntire took a similar full page ad in the Times expressing the conviction that Fundamentalists must give their backing to Israel in the Middle Eastern dispute (ETERNITY, January 1978, pp/ 8-9). Hal Lindsey speaks of "three keys" which he claims provide the basis for the Premillennial interpretation of future events. He says they are:

1. The rebith of the nation of Israel;
2. The return of Jerusalem to Jewish hands; and
3. The rebuilding of the Jewish temple on Mt. Moriah. In his book, he wries: "There will bw a reinstitution of the Jewish worship according to the Law of Moses with sacrifices and oblations... there will soon begin the construction of the temple." (THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, page 57)

The Bible notes, however, that from the stand-point of God, Judaism has forever served its purposes. The old Law was only a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. Now that Christ has come, the schoolmaster may be dismissed (Galatians 3:24-25). When Christ died, the veil of the temple was torn in two by God, signifying that the old Law and Temple worship had served its purpose. As a convincing demonstration that He was finished with Judaism as a religious system, God caused Jerusalem to be completely destroyed in AD 70 so that not one stone was left standing upon another. Furthermore, the Bible is very explicit in teaching that the Covenant promises to Abraham's descendents have been fulfilled. In Joshua 21:43 we read - "So the LORD gave Israelall the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it." Joshua 23:14 reiterates the same fact. It is a misapplication of Scripture and a misdirection of foreign policy to insist that Israel must possess the Middle East because "God willis it."

Premillennialsim is wrong because it misunderstands God;s purposes for Judaism.

To be continued on the next thread/entry...

Last edited by BlueJay180; 29th July 2010 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 29th July 2010, 11:08 PM
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COUNTDOWN TO ARMAGEDDON????
(Continued)
From: www.churches-of-christ.net/tracts

THE TWO RESURRECTION THEORY
Premillennialsts hold that "the first resurrection" of Revelation 20:5 is the resurrection of the righteous dead to share in the Rapture. But the Bible teaches that there is only one general resurrection from the dead. Premillennial theory sees events in this order:

1. The first resurrection;
2. The Rapture and the 1,000-year reign; and
3. the final defeat of Satan.

However, 1 Corinthians 15:26 teaches that death will not be destroyed by the Resurrection until the final defeat of Satan! In fact, it is the Resurrection itself which neutralizes Satan's greatest weapon (death) and which results in his final defeat. Paul plainly specifies "The last enemy that will be abolished is death." (1 Corinthians 15:26) And, then -- immediately after the resurrection - the Kingdom is to be delivered up to God (1 Corinthians 15:24).

Clearly, there is no time in the Biblical scheme of things for two bodily resurrections separated by a 1,000-year reign on earth. It is conceivable that the doctrine of two resurrections from physical death, if true, would be mentioned only once in a book of symbols when every book in the New Testament touches upon the doctrine of the Resurrection.

The "two resurrection" theory contradicts the clear teaching of Jesus. He said, "Do not marvel at this: for an hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment." (John 5:28-29) In John 6:40, Jesus plainly taught that the righteous dead would not be raised up until "the last day". The last day is that day which signals the end of time and earthly matter as we know it! There is simply no time for a 1,000-year reign on earth after the "last day". Whatever the first resurrection is, it is not a resurrection of bodies; rather it is contrasted in scripture with the second or bodily resurrection!

Premillennialism is wrong in its concept of the two resurrections.

THE RAPTURE
One of the most cherished doctrines of Premillennialsim is that of the so-called Rapture. According to Robert Strong, the Rapture refers to the "sudden and possible secret coming of Christ in the air to catch away from the earth the resurrected bodies of those who died in faith and with them the living saints." Those who hold this view are disagreed among themselves as to whether this period will last 3 1/2 (3.5) or 7 years. Hal Lindsey describes it this way: "Someday, a day that only God knows, Jesus Christ is coming to take away all those that believe in Him. He is coming to meet all true believers in the air. Without benefit of science, space suits, or interplanetary rockets, there will be those who will be transported into a glorious place more beautiful, more awesome, than we can possibly comprehend. Earth and all its thrills, excitement, and pleasures will be nothing in contrast to this great event. It will be the living end. The ultimate trip." (THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, page 137)

The Bible is unaware of any such doctrine! The word "rapture" is not even found in the Bible! When Christ comes again, it will be no secret - "every eye will see Him." (Revelation 1:7). Paul says that when we are "caught up" with the Lord, we will "always be" with Him (1 Thessalonians 4:17). This would not allow for a 1,000-year return to earth to participate in the "Millennium". When Jesus comes to be glorified with His saints, He will simultaneously destroy the wicked (2 Thessalonians 1:8-10). Death will ultimately give way to the Resurrection and Judgment, not Resurrection and Rapture! "And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment." (Hebrews 9:27) The time between the Resurrection and the consummation of our hope will be but a "moment"; not 7 years (1 Corinthians 15:52)!

Premillennialism is wrong because it insists upon a "Rapture" of which the Bible has no knowledge.

ARMAGEDDON
According to Premillennialism of the 1,000-year reign will be preceded by a period of terrible tribulation which will climax in the Battle of Armageddon. According to the theory: "The tribulation will be God's wrath on this Christ rejecting world... There will be wars and at least one-half the world's population will be killed... Men will be scorched with fire, there will be great earthquakes and one hundred percent hail. Cities will fall and every island and mountain will disappear." (Bible Believer's Evangelistic Association, GOD'S PLAN FOR THE AGES). The central feature of the Tribulation will be Armageddon. Hal Lindsey envisioned this scenario:

1. Russia, allied with the Arab states, will invade Israel;
2. Russia will then double-cross her Arab aliies and will make war upon them and the African states;
3. The Revived Roman Empire, headed by antichrist, will enter the war and defeat the Russians using nuclear weapons;
4. An army of 200 million Red Chinese will cross the Euphrates and enter the war, thus setting up the climatic battle on the plains of Armageddon.

The Bible furnishes no basis for these speculations. The Scriptures reveal that the "tribulation" had already begun in the days of the Apostle John (Revelation 1:9)! The faithful New Testament Church at Symrna received this message from Christ: "Do not fear what you are about to suffer. Behold, the devil is about to cast some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) The tribulation represents that spirit of opposition which has confronted the true Church of God all throughout history. In varying degrees, it is something which the Church must constantly contend with!

Armageddon is not a physical battle to be waged with guns, tanks, and nuclear war-heads! Rather, it is a spiritual struggle between the forces of good and evil. The word Armageddon is a combination of the Hebrew words "Har" meaning "mount" and Megiddo" which was the site of several crucial batt;es in Jewish history (cf. 2 Kings 23, Judges 5:19; Judges 7). Literally, then, Armageddon is "the mountain of Megiddo". In the descriptive language of the Prophets, the word "mountain" was used symbolically to refer to the church (cf. Isaiah 2:2). Armageddon, then, simply refers to the spiritual battles which must be fought by the church.

Ours is not a fleshly enemy - "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places." (Ephesians 6:12) Armageddon is the continuing struggle between the forces of good and evil. It is fought whenever and wherever right confronts wrong. It rages within the heart and within the nation! It is a battle which is being fought now! Christians must arm themselves and fight (Ephesians 6:11, 2 Corinthians 10:4, 1 Timothy 6:12). The faithful of God must confront every form of evil in every age at Armageddon!

Premillennialism is wrong because it has a mistaken idea about the meaning of Tribulation and Armageddon.

THE 1,000-YEAR REIGN
Premillennialsts insist that the Bible clearly teaches that Christ will reign on earth for 1,000 years. They base their belief on their interpretation of Revelation 20:4, which says "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years." It is held that this verse teaches a literal rule of Christ on earth from David's throne in Jerusalem.

But what does Revelation 20 actually say? Note some things which are not said in this misquoted and misunderstood section of the Bible:

1. Revelation 20 does not specifically mention the Second Coming of Christ - these events are not connected with it.
2. Revelation 20 doe3s not mention us. Those who reign are souls (i.e. disembodied spirits) who are referred to as "they".
3. Revelation 20 does not mention the reign "of" Christ, but the reign of souls "with" Christ. There is a difference!
4. Revelation 20 does not mention a reign on earth. According to Revelation 6;9, the souls of the martyrs who are described as reigning are under the altar in heaven.
5. Revelation 20 does not mention a bodily resurrection. The first resurrection mentioned here is something which is contrasted with the second or bodily resurrection.
6. Revelation 20 does not mention David's throne. A plurality of thrones is mentioned.
7. Revelation 20 does not mention the city of Jerusalem or the land of Palestine.
8. Revelation 20 does not indicate that the reign was for 1,000 literal years. It is said of the martyrs that "they lived and reigned..." In other words, they lived for exactly the same period that they reigned. If the reign is 1,000 literal years, then they only lived 1,000 literal years!
9. Revelation 20 does not mention Christ on earth. Instead, Christ is with the souls of the martyrs which were in heaven.

A great deal must be read into Revelation 20 before anything resembling Premillennialism will emerge from it. What does Revelation 20 actually say when it is read craefully?

1. It says that Satan can be bound (20:1). How? By preaching the Gospel! The sword of the Spirit is the chain which has the power to restrain the devilish influence of the old serpent.
2. It says that the martyrs who died for the cause of Christ will see their faith vindicated. How? By the triumph of the Gospel for which they died. When the Gospel which they preached is triumphant, they share in that triumph. They are victorious (i.e. sit on thrones) when the Word of God is victorious! The power of the Gospel is such that the reign of the truth is spoken of symbolically (Revelation is, after all, a book of symbols) as a thousand year reign. One thousand years suggest completeness, fullness, totality. When the Gospel is preached in all its original power and purity, then it has the capability to fully, completely, and totally overpwer the influence of the Devil. When this happens, the martyrs who gave their lives for the Gospel's sake share in its triumph (cf. Romans 1:16, 8:37).
3. Reveleation 20 also warns that Satan can be loosed! How? By the failure of Christ's followers to proclaim the Gospel. Where the voice of the Gospel is not heard, then the influence of Satan rages unchecked.
4. Finally, Revelation 20 confirms that there is a coming day of Universal Judgment when all mankind will be summoned to give an account of the things done in the body (Revelation 20:12-15).

Premillennialism is wrong because it misunderstands the nature of the thousand year reign!

IS THIS THE END?
Premillennialism has built its popularity on its sense of immediacy. It claims to provide an insight into the near future. Those who preach the doctrines of Premillennialism are convinced that the end of the present order of things is at hand. Pat Boone wrote concerning the Second Coming of Christ: "...the signs that it's about to happen are everywhere." In the original edition of THE LATE GREAT PLANET EARTH, Hal Lindsey theorized that the end would come within 40 years of the founding of Israel, which took place in 1948. In more recent editions of the book, Lindsey somewhat modifies his prediction, but in the movie version, he strongly suggests that the end will come before the end of the 20th Century. The 20th Century has now become the 21st Century and the end did not come.

It should be remembered that speculations about the Second Coming of Christ are not at all new. In the 2nd Century, Montanus of Phrygia proclaimed the imminent return of the Lord. During the Reformation, the German theologian Melchoir Hoffman set the time of Christ's return as October 22, 1844. In 1920, J.F. Rutherford, head of the Jehovah's Witnesses, wrote a book entitled MILLIONS NOW LIVING SHALL NEVER DIE in which claimed that 1925 would be the year of Restoration when Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would be restored to life in visible form (pp. 88-89, 100). More recent literature by the Jehovah's Witnesses predicted that the present age would come to an end in the Fall of 1975 (LIFE EVERLASTING IN FREEDOM OF THE SONS OF GOD, page 29)! Surely the long list of those who have misread the "signs of the times" should caution us against any extreme or extravagant predictions concerning future things!

What does the Bible say about the future?
1. Christ Is Coming Again. "This Jesus, Who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven. (Acts 1:11)"
2. Christ Is Coming Unexpectedly. Jesus Himself plainly said "you do not know the day nor the hour (Matthew 25:13)." He also said: "For this reason you be ready too; for the Son of Man is coming at an hour when you do not think He will (Matthew 24:44)." Clearly, Jesus did not expect men to be able to unlock the secret of the time of His coming! In fact, He went so far as to say: "But of that day or hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone (Mark 13:32)." Even Jesus Himself does not know the time the Father has chosen for His return! Anyone claiming to gauge the future by reading the "signs of the times" is claiming a knowledge denied to the Angels of Heaven and the Son of God. The time of Christ's return is both unknown and unknowable!
3. We Must Make Ready Now! Since we cannot know at what time the Lord may come, we must be ready at all times. The coming of Jesus may be soon or distant, but our only opportunity for making ready for His return is NOW (2 Corinthians 6:2)! The question is not: "When is Christ coming?" but "Will I be ready?" Jesus said, "Take heed, keep on the alert; for you do not know when the appointed time is (Mark 13:33)."

"But the day of the Lord will come like a thief..." (2 Peter 3:10)
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Trust God's Word - not preachers ...

Originally Posted by BlueJay180 View Post
Are there women angels? None whatsoever. I was watching "Touched By An Angel" years ago and I knew something was definitely wrong with this show, which is based out of scripture. So, one day, I talked to my preacher about this and asked him if there are any women angels? He said that angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine. Every passage in the Bible where they mention angels, every angel is male. Read God's Word and see for yourselves. I will have more later on other subjects and issues.
I don't want to come off as 'unkind' or insensitive, so understand my heart is to focus on obtaining truth. While it is a 'good idea' to seek counsel from spiritual people it is not the safest guide in terms of determining truth. Acts 17:10-11 is an excellent reference as to one's personal responsibility concerning discerning truth from error.

Whether we like it or not, ALL people are opinionated and biased (yes, even preachers). I have been asked, "What do we believe about this or that?" on hundreds of occasions. "We" is the operative word here. It betrays a 'party spirit' (schisms). It is not unlike the issues the Master dealt with throughout his earthly ministry. Scribes, Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, Herodians, and many lessor known Jewish sects dictated the perceptions and interpretations of the 'lay people' in their particular group. This is a human tendency. It is trusting the 'arm of flesh' which will eventually fail.

Paul instructed Timothy to study to show himself approved ... personal Bible study cannot be accomplished vicariously, hence the 'personal' part of Bible study. If we depend on someone else for our understanding we can fall prey to all manners of misinformation, even with 'good' intentions.

Read the Bible and develop study skills to prevent hazardous vulnerability. It is THAT simple. It requires discipline and dedication. It demonstrates one's absolute dependence upon God and his inspired word as opposed to someone's views, education, etc. The restoration movement is premised on individual responsibility to know God's word for oneself.

If we fail to personally study and know God's word, we eventually evolve into a denomination, albeit a non-denomination-denomination. There are no shortcuts in the process.

There was a day when restoration folks were known for the individual Bible knowledge they possessed. That day is gone when we depend on our spiritual leaders for authoritative direction.

Preachers, teachers and elders should refer people to the Word of God. They should recommend reading Scripture instead of books about Scripture, or 'unwritten' but widely 'accepted' interpretations of Scripture. Become a man or woman of THE BOOK and not a follower of men. Otherwise, one digresses into a discussion of 'my preacher is smarter, more spiritual and scriptural than your preacher.' This is a terrible woe and encompasses ALL 'groups' of religious people.
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