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  #11  
Old 15th February 2007, 06:04 PM
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There is one woman in scripture who is shown as a Deacons (below) the word used in relation to her by Paul is "servant" but that word is defined "deacon".

"Pastors" where the word is used only once in the NT but moreso in the OT (Pastor) is the same word as shepherd (even in the OT) . Now in the OT under the defintion is included the word "Shepherdess" but the word itself is not used in scripture.

For example

Jermiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall FEED you with knowledge and understanding. (Feed my sheep?)

The word "pastors" is ra`ah {raw-aw'} here
1) to pasture, tend, graze, feed a) (Qal) 1) to tend, pasture a) to shepherd b) of ruler, teacher (fig) c) of people as flock (fig) d) shepherd, herdsman (subst) 2) to feed, graze a) of cows, sheep etc (literal) b) of idolater, Israel as flock (fig) b) (Hiphil) shepherd, shepherdess 2) to associate with, be a friend of (meaning probable) a) (Qal) to associate with b) (Hithpael) to be companions 3) (Piel) to be a special friend


This brought me to thinking about Deacons, as it seems to show here only men can be (keep reading)

1Titus 3:12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.

Deacon "diakoneo"

1)) to be a servant, attendant, domestic, to serve, wait upon a) to minister to one, render ministering offices to 1) to be served, ministered unto b) to wait at a table and offer food and drink to the guests, 1) of women??? preparing food c) to minister i.e. supply food and necessities of life 1) to relieve one's necessities (e.g. by collecting alms), to provide take care of, distribute, the things necessary to sustain life 2) to take care of the poor and the sick, who administer the office of a deacon 3) in Christian churches to serve as deacons d) to minister 1) to attend to anything, that may serve another's interests 2) to minister a thing to one, to serve one or by supplying any thing

Same word Deacon "diakoneo" means "minister" or "minster unto" check the word in the verses

Mat 25:55 And many women were there beholding afar off, which followed Jesus from Galilee, ministering unto him: (more examples of this word found in the above definition even "minister" which is synonomous with deacon and others connect)

Again here (Just so you can see if not only in part give it a look yourself)

1Cr 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?

The word "ministers" here is diakonos {dee-ak'-on-os}

1) one who executes the commands of another, esp. of a master, a servant, attendant, minister a) the servant of a king b) a deacon ( above shows a woman as well) one who, by virtue of the office assigned to him by the church, cares for the poor and has charge of and distributes the money collected for their use c) a waitor, one who serves food and drink ( if serving food is synonomous with those who serve tables its not assigned just to women see seven men are chosen Acts 6:3)For Synonyms see entry 5834

The best example is Phebe

Look at the word "servant" in this verse is "diakonos" {dee-ak'-on-os}


Romans 16:1-2 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant (Deacon)of the church which is at Cenchrea:That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a Succourer of MANY, and of myself also.(and Romans 16:27 as well)


Succourer
1) a woman set over others 2) a female guardian, protectress, patroness, caring for the affairs of others and aiding them with her resources


So it does show that a deacon can be a woman and set over others, being a "protectress" shes much like a "shepherdess" in that regard as a shepherd not only lays down ones life for the sheep but "protects" and cares for them.

In regards to being able to a woman teaching... rather then dive into why the Lord said ye suffereth that woman *Jezebel* to teach, and Paul who said HE suffer NOT a woman to teach, lets take it straight on.

If a woman would TEACH then she would be a TEACHER, the scripture then puts a "difference" between "pastors" and "teachers" correct? Theres only one word in the NT for "pastors" it means "shepherds" but in the OT the definition allows for shepherdess ra`ah {raw-aw'}


They were allowed to prophesy and shows the woman prayeth or "prophesieth" propheteuo {prof-ate-yoo'-o} then when you look at the definition it does have something to do with "speaking". It says your "Daughters" shall "prophesy" Acts 2:17 one had four daughters which did prophesy Acts 21:9 One who prophesieth simply "edifieth the church". Now, if women cannot speak (in order to edify the church) its a pretty useless gift for women, but they had it. What good is having a gift to simply edify the church you cant speak in it? I'm pretty sure as I have heard some think "edifying others" (which is what prophesying is) has passed away? Im not sure, I guess it depends on which camp I suppose? Now "where" a woman could prophesy seems to be the issue. How can she edify the church when a woman cannot supposedly speak in the church?

Pastors and teachers

Ephes 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

Only one word for "pastors" synonomous for "shepherd"


Ephes 4:11 Pastors poimen {poy-mane'}1) a herdsman, esp. a shepherd a) in the parable, he to whose care and control OTHERS have committed themselves TO, and whose precepts they follow 2) metaph. a) the presiding officer, manager, director, of any assembly: so of Christ the Head of the church 1) of the overseers of the Christian assemblies 2) of kings and princes

The tasks of a Near Eastern shepherd were:

- to watch for enemies trying to attack the sheep
- to defend the sheep from attackers
- to heal the wounded and sick sheep
- to find and save lost or trapped sheep
- to love them, sharing their lives and so earning their trust.

This is short but I wonder if we understand all the roles correctly. Though to be servant of all in Christ would not need collars, papers, position, title or recognition. Man or woman if the Spirit of my Lord quickens something in me through you I would hear.

Just because Jim Jones (and many like him) are a men no more makes him worth the listen, heeding or correct (as I see it).

But Im with her ^ Im a woman, I dont know squat either. Though, I know when Zachariah was told he was to be dumb and not able to speak, he asked for something to "write with" ... He seemed to understand the "order" to be silent did not include writing

Typing ok?

Peace

Fireinfolding
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  #12  
Old 18th February 2007, 04:55 PM
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Homie, I don't hate women at all. I love women regardless of who and what they believe in and their viewpoints and opinions on all things. I'm definitely NOT going to use this thread to go against women...I'm just using this thread to show you all what the Bible really says about a lot of things, including what we know and what we believe in.

Last edited by BlueJay180; 18th February 2007 at 05:24 PM.
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  #13  
Old 18th February 2007, 05:20 PM
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I was reading 1 John 1:8-10 earler today (02/18/2007) and this passage of scripture tells us in verse 8 that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and there is no truth in us. Verse 9 says "But if we confess our sins to God, He will keep His promise and do what is right: He will forgive us our sins and purify us from all our wrongdoing." Many denominations and other churches use verse 9 and teach that as on how to get saved (that is, salvation). That is not true and it does not tell us how to get saved. What I am saying is this and what verse 9 really says/means is that all Christians sin and we, believers in Jesus Christ, have to confess our sins to God (if and when we commit them) and ask Him for forgiveness. He will indeed forgive us for our sins and wrongdoings and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That's what it is really all about here. Verse 10 clearly says that "If we say that we have not sinned, we make a liar out of God, and His Word is not in us." All of us sin; saints and sinners alike. I know I have sinned, and have asked God to forgive me of my sins. If you have sinned against God, ask Him to forgive you of the sin(s) you have commited against Him and He will do it, cleansing you from your unrighteousness. I will have more later, Lord willing.
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Old 23rd February 2007, 03:02 PM
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When talking about what the Bible plainly and really says, it's important to read very carefully and accurately, to read everything that is being said, and not to read into it things that are not being said.

My reading of the passages on angels tells me only two actual things: that they "neither marry nor are given in marriage," and that whenever an angel has appeared to a human, the angel has appeared to that human to be male. Everything else is just inference.

As far as this passage on women teaching is concerned, notice the important word "I." Paul uses that word "I" when he is referring to his own practice as opposed to something the Lord actually commands. So Paul does not allow women to teach in the church at that point in history. That's all that passage actually says.

Last edited by Wordgazer; 23rd February 2007 at 03:27 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old 27th February 2007, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueJay180 View Post
Homie, I don't hate women at all. I love women regardless of who and what they believe in and their viewpoints and opinions on all things. I'm definitely NOT going to use this thread to go against women...I'm just using this thread to show you all what the Bible really says about a lot of things, including what we know and what we believe in.
Good! I'm glad you aren't using this thread for that purpose. I've had to deal with far too much woman bashing to suit me for a lifetime.

As far as what the bible really says though, I think we all need to be careful when reading the bible. It's easy to read any portion of the bible and read into it what we see with our own version of how we see things. IOW, if we have a preset notion of what we believe, then it's easy to find scripture to support our own POV.

The very topic you've brought to light is a perfect example. Your preset notion was that there were no women angels and you've tried to support that with scripture. To you, it's crystal clear. To me, not so much.

Now, I wouldn't say you are wrong. You may in fact be right. Where I would differ with you though, is that I don't see how clearly you can draw your conclusion solely through scirpture.

Perhaps it would be better to say, "From how I read the scriptures and from the examples I've seen in the bible of who angels are, I've drawn the conclusion that there are no women angels."

The difference is that we now know it's your opinion, rather than the inferred idea that the rest of us, who may not agree with you, don't know how to read the bible properly.
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Old 12th April 2007, 09:48 PM
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In Matthew 7:6, Jesus says (in the TEV/Good News Translation): "Do not give what is holy to dogs--they will only turn and attack you. Do not throw your pearls in front of pigs--they will only trample them underfoot." What is Jesus saying here? He says to us do not shove the Bible/His teachings down anyone's throat if they don't want to hear God's Word/the truth. Go ahead and tell them about God, Jesus, the Bible, and the truth if they are interested. If they don't want to hear them, then don't press; don't even push it, and respect their wishes. Tell them you will pray for them so that they will hear the truth and all about God, Jesus, and His Word someday before they leave this world. Remember what Jesus said in Matthew 7:6 and you will do all right. I will have more later, Lord willing...
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Old 13th April 2007, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BlueJay180 View Post
I will have more later, Lord willing...
Heywaitaminute.

Do you mean that whenever you post something, it's the will of God?
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Old 13th April 2007, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by holo View Post
Heywaitaminute.

Do you mean that whenever you post something, it's the will of God?
I think he means this...

James 4:13-15

13 Come now, you who say, “Today or tomorrow we will go into this or that town and spend a year there and do business and make a profit.”
14 You do not know about tomorrow. What is your life like? For you are a puff of smoke that appears for a short time and then vanishes.
15 You ought to say instead, “If the Lord is willing, then we will live and do this or that.”
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Old 14th April 2007, 11:02 PM
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That is exactly what I meant, JDIBe...what I actually and really meant is/was that if I have any more subjects from God's Word and what His Word really says about it/them, I will post for you later, Lord willing.
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Old 19th April 2007, 08:34 AM
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Peace, BlueJay

Originally Posted by BlueJay180 View Post
Are there women angels? None whatsoever. I was watching "Touched By An Angel" years ago and I knew something was definitely wrong with this show, which is based out of scripture. So, one day, I talked to my preacher about this and asked him if there are any women angels? He said that angels have no sex but they do appear male/masculine. Every passage in the Bible where they mention angels, every angel is male. Read God's Word and see for yourselves. I will have more later on other subjects and issues.
This issue seems to be dangerously close to the supposed mideval obsession with "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"

Yes, the Bible no where states that when an Angel appeared it was female. Of course, some angelic beings appeared in the form of a lion, an ox and an eagle, and I'm not sure if it specifically states if these creatures were feminine or masculine (perhaps I should look it up.)

But arguments from silence are not particularly compelling to me. There's no particular reason to assume that Angels would never appear in feminine form. But frankly, I really don't see why this matters at all. If someone claims to have seen an angel, I'd probably be skeptical, no matter if it appeared as a male, female, ox, lion or eagle. I'd be more concerned with what they claim the "angel" said (Gal 1:8).

In Christ,

Daniel
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