Speaking in Tongues?

Now what happened to St. Silvan's pic? It was there before I refreshed the page...

__________________
Let us, therefore, forget for a while the technical discussions about the Church, its mission, its methods. Not that these discussions are wrong or unnecessary—but they can be useful and meaningful only within a fundamental context, and that context is the “great joy” from which everything else in Christianity developed and acquired its meaning."

---Fr. Alexander Schmemann, “For the Life of the World.”

Originally Posted by B4Eddie

The fire and glowing of those saints might have been the Spirit's Glory passing through them, much as Benny Hinn claims to experience. Could it be related to the Oriental idea of Chee?

My dearest brothers in Christ, Eddie and Neal:

Christ is in our midst!

St. Seraphim -- He did refer to the glory of God being manifested in him. St. Seraphim also said that he was transfigured like Christ and that his body was actually glorified on earth as it will be in heaven. Furthermore, he said that we are called to be saints like him on this earth, but few even try.

Hinn -- I am not a follower of Benny Hinn and never have been, so I cannot verify his claim.

Chi -- is kind of New Age. I was taking Karate Lessons and there were a bunch of Gnostics (Neo-Gnostics) who really wanted to have this power called Chi.

St. Dominic – Eye witnesses said that the forehead of St. Dominic glowed.

Are there any other saints that glowed with this holy fire?

Since our God is a consuming fire, and this consuming fire purifies us, either we are purified on this earth through theosis (like the saints) or we have to be purified in the next life. Now Catholics would call that next life purgatory. Right? This is the real baptism of fire. Correct?

From what I read of the early Church Fathers, the Baptism of the Holy Spirit appears to be confirmation. Maybe someone could verify that as I forgot where I read that.

Lovingly yours in Christ-God,
Elizabeth

Originally Posted by isshinwhat

Does the Eastern Church have incorruptables? Neal

My dearest brother Neal in Christ:

Christ is in our midst!

For some unknown reason the urls appeared in the reply box but not when you posted it. Strange!

Yes, the Eastern Catholic Church has incorruptibles - Check the Melkites. One of their incorruptible saints is to be canonized -- a Carmelite Sister I think. She was Melkite!

There are very many Eastern Orthodox incorruptibles, too many to count. One of the tragedies of the Serbian bombings -- the U.S. forces bombed the cemetery where there were many incorruptable bodies of the saints. That's a real tragedy.

P.S. That is why the Orthodox Church opposes cremation and will not allow it, unless they are forced to by the health authorities.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth

St. Bishoi is one of my favorites saints, and is incorruptable. His body used to be displayed, but Muslim officials ordered that it be covered since it was an embarasment to them. Since then it has been covered, and one monk doubted that it was true, so he unwrapped the body and felt the face & found that the skin and beard and everything was still perfectly intact with no sign of decay after a millenium and a half. But when the monk tried to remove his hand, he found that he could not. He cried out, and the other monks came. The abbot asked St. Bishoi to release him, making three prostrations in accordance with the monastic rule, but St. Bishoi did not. He then asked him as a friend to release him, but he did not. He then told him that he was only a lowly monk, and as a hegomen (abbot/protopriest) he ordered him to release the monk. St. Bishoi, one of the most widely venerated saints of the Coptic Church, humbly obeyed the order of the abbot and released him. But as a reminder of his lack of faith, the monk's hand shakes violently to this day (he is still alive, my priest has met him).

Your pictures didn't work, can you try again?

Elizabeth,

I still think you may be a little confused as to what the Charismatic Catholics are.

It really in not about becoming a saint although as I said, that should be all of our aim Charismatic not with standing. Being Charismatic in of it’s self does not mean you have reach perfect purification. The Holy Spirit will come on you to convict you to be purify through baptism in the Spirit but I do not believe receiving this, it means you have completed sanctification.

The movement is about taking what God gave you in confirmation [gifts] and using them in a particular way as the Holy Spirit leads you to do so. It does not guarantee salvation. Jesus said he will say to those who prophesized in his name, “depart from me, I never knew you” if they do not follow God’s commands.

Confirmation is our own Pentecost, yes but the call at Vatican II was for the Church to stir up the Holy Spirit and the gifts that all the baptized and confirmed have be given in order to build up the Church, it was a call for all of us to participate in the gifts of the Spirit, not just for the extraordinary saints that God raises up.

St. Francis of Assi is another "Charismatic" that comes to mind who bore the wounds of Christ.

I heard from Fr. Fox who is head of the Fatima family apostlate that in the east they have the gift of light where the do glow with the Holy Spirit, glorifying the transfiguration and the reserection and in the west we have the manifestation of the sufferings of Christ where we glorify Christ crucified. Although both east and west are devoted to the risen and crucified lord, the west tends to emphasize the sufferings of Jesus and the east the resurrection. That could explain the eastern monks that would glow from the Sprit in them and the Catholics that bare Christ wounds.

Yes these are all wonderful examples of the Spirit working through the apostolic Church of Christ but the CCR is a call for all of us to use our gifts that we have to build the Church once again in these trying times.

__________________
For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?

And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? --Matthew 5

If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?

And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother. --1 John 4

I know some Apostolics believe that you have to have "the gift of tongues" in order to be saved.

Are those seriously pictures of those dead saints as they are today? Or are those just statues? Those are really amazing.

Originally Posted by princess_ballet

I know some Apostolics believe that you have to have "the gift of tongues" in order to be saved.

Are those seriously pictures of those dead saints as they are today? Or are those just statues? Those are really amazing.

Dearest joy in Christ: Christ is Risen!

Our God is the God of the living not the dead. The bodies of the Saints that you saw are perfectly preserved. There are probably thousands of incorrupt saints, many of which are at Mt. Athos in Greece.

In 1973 this news was released. There is this Dominican Monastery in New Jersey. Because of a flood in the basement where they had interred their beloved departed, the nuns had to move the deceased nuns from one side to the other. Everything was going along just fine. The nuns were moving the light coffins (because the bodies had decomposed and were just bones), except for one coffin. It was too heavy for the nuns to lift. So they received permission from the bishop to open the coffin.

Research was done and it was discovered that this was a lay nun - she was only a Dominican Tertiary who worked as an extern for the monastery. Anyway, when they opened her coffin, she was perfectly preserved except for her habit which was rotten with age. They put a fresh habit on her, trimmed her fingernails which had grown and also cut her long hair as relics. It was like she had just died -- and she had died more than 100 years ago.

Your sister in Christ,

Elizabeth

Originally Posted by Shelb5

[excerpts] It really in not about becoming a saint although as I said, that should be all of our aim Charismatic not with standing. Being Charismatic in of it’s self does not mean you have reach perfect purification. The Holy Spirit will come on you to convict you to be purify through baptism in the Spirit but I do not believe receiving this, it means you have completed sanctification. ...

Confirmation is our own Pentecost, yes but the call at Vatican II was for the Church to stir up the Holy Spirit and the gifts that all the baptized and confirmed have be given in order to build up the Church, it was a call for all of us to participate in the gifts of the Spirit, not just for the extraordinary saints that God raises up. ...

Yes these are all wonderful examples of the Spirit working through the apostolic Church of Christ but the CCR is a call for all of us to use our gifts that we have to build the Church once again in these trying times.

My dearest Michelle: Christ is Risen!

I was within the Charismatic Movement for a good 20 years and was involved in the healing, teaching and musical ministries at one time or the other. At that time, some leaders within the Charismatic movement believed that the Charismatic Movement itself would blend in with the Church like leaven in dough. Therefore, a sizable number left the Charismatic Movement and became active within the parishes. One person can only do so much. We have to prioritize things.

One thing was stressed: personal sanctity is a must. If each one of us tries to be the best he can, and really lets God transform him into a Saint - into another Christ, then we will have a much better parish, a holier diocese (which we definitely need) and ultimately the Church on earth will be in much better shape.

So I now see the Charismatic Movement as primarily a college age group. Once a person has settled down, then the parish activities alone can be quite overwhelming. Don't you agree?

However, all the Charismatic leaders I knew stressed the need for regular daily prayers and personal holiness. Without purification and theosis, the gifts of the Holy Spirit will not be manifested.

O Holy St. Seraphim of Sarov, intercede for us to God.

Yours in Christ,
Elizabeth

Elizabeth,

I think we are speaking past each other here, I do not disagree with you about striving for holiness and needing to be in a state of grace in order to have the Spirit manifest himself to us but I would not compare the Charismatic movement to the lives of the saints although I believe the saints are truly Charismatic.

To me it is just a ministry that some are called for and some are called to other ministries in the Church even if that is to stay home a raise a family for the lord, it's still God's work and where he puts us that is our own personal path to sanctity.

If I am not mistaken you are saying that anyone following Christ in a state of grace is “Charismatic” because they have the Holy Spirit living in them? I do not disagree with this either but the movement is a ministry dedicated to using the gifts for the Church. Do you feel that we do not have a need for such a ministry because we all are “Charismatic?”

To answer your question, the only Charismatics that I know are adults but I find in the parishes the life teen ministries that are leading our youth seems to be rooted in Charismatic style praise and worship. I hope they are being taught how to remain close to Jesus in the sacraments and they do not get carried away in the feel good aspect of the worship if you know what I mean.

__________________
For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?

And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? --Matthew 5

If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?

And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother. --1 John 4

Originally Posted by Shelb5

Do you feel that we do not have a need for such a ministry because we all are “Charismatic?”

To answer your question, the only Charismatics that I know are adults but I find in the parishes the life teen ministries that are leading our youth seems to be rooted in Charismatic style praise and worship. I hope they are being taught how to remain close to Jesus in the sacraments and they do not get carried away in the feel good aspect of the worship if you know what I mean.

My dearest Michelle: Christ is in our midst!

I truly wish that we were all Charismatics but we're not. Even in a given day, we seem to turn off, then turn on. Do you know what I mean? We're not consistent in our love for God. Our passions get in the way. We get upset easy and perhaps say something we later regret, or over indulge in food or drinks, or don't observe custody of the eyes, or fail to keep God in our minds. Do you see what I mean?

The saints can be called the true Charismatics because they truly possess the gifts of the Holy Spirit, because they have purified their passions. Those saints who have attained Theosis - union with God -- are very consistent in their love for Him.

I think the Charismatic movement has appropriated a name that can be misleading. I saw a lot of people hurt because they wrongly expected that the Charismatic leaders would be saints, when they were not. Again, a lot of people chase after healers hoping to be cured. Some people search out apparitions of the Blessed Virgin, even those ruled false. Others seek out holy monks - and the monks refuse to see them because these monks can read their hearts and know that it is just curiosity or self-centeredness which draws them.

Anyway, as I previously stated, a lot of Charismatic Catholics are no longer active in the movement because they feel Christ calling them to help in the parishes, in evangelization, here on this board, or in college ministry. We cannot all be in the Charismatic Renewal because there is just too much work to do and very few laborers.

I guess I look upon the movement as more as a training ground. You graduate and then you move on.

Hope this helps and I hope I didn't offend you. This is just my own opinion.

Your sister in Christ,
Elizabeth