I've always been taught that evocation is vicious and satanic because man can't call back the souls of dead people. No doubt, it is dangerous, yet I'm wondering if it is really as satanic as parents tell us in order to keep us away from occultism.
In 1 Samuel 28, we can read of Saul trying to get in touch with the prophet Samuel's spirit.
1 In those days the Philistines gathered their forces to fight against Israel. Achish said to David, "You must understand that you and your men will accompany me in the army."
2 David said, "Then you will see for yourself what your servant can do." Achish replied, "Very well, I will make you my bodyguard for life." 3 Now Samuel was dead, and all Israel had mourned for him and buried him in his own town of Ramah. Saul had expelled the mediums and spiritists from the land. 4 The Philistines assembled and came and set up camp at Shunem, while Saul gathered all the Israelites and set up camp at Gilboa. 5 When Saul saw the Philistine army, he was afraid; terror filled his heart. 6 He inquired of the LORD, but the LORD did not answer him by dreams or Urim or prophets. 7 Saul then said to his attendants, "Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her."
"There is one in Endor," they said. 8 So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. "Consult a spirit for me," he said, "and bring up for me the one I name." 9 But the woman said to him, "Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?" 10 Saul swore to her by the LORD, "As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this." 11 Then the woman asked, "Whom shall I bring up for you?"
"Bring up Samuel," he said. 12 When the woman saw Samuel, she cried out at the top of her voice and said to Saul, "Why have you deceived me? You are Saul!" 13 The king said to her, "Don't be afraid. What do you see?"
The woman said, "I see a spirit coming up out of the ground." 14 "What does he look like?" he asked.
"An old man wearing a robe is coming up," she said.
Then Saul knew it was Samuel, and he bowed down and prostrated himself with his face to the ground. 15 Samuel said to Saul, "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?"
"I am in great distress," Saul said. "The Philistines are fighting against me, and God has turned away from me. He no longer answers me, either by prophets or by dreams. So I have called on you to tell me what to do." 16 Samuel said, "Why do you consult me, now that the LORD has turned away from you and become your enemy? 17 The LORD has done what he predicted through me. The LORD has torn the kingdom out of your hands and given it to one of your neighbors—to David. 18 Because you did not obey the LORD or carry out his fierce wrath against the Amalekites, the LORD has done this to you today. 19 The LORD will hand over both Israel and you to the Philistines, and tomorrow you and your sons will be with me. The LORD will also hand over the army of Israel to the Philistines." 20 Immediately Saul fell full length on the ground, filled with fear because of Samuel's words. His strength was gone, for he had eaten nothing all that day and night.
I've always believed that it is impossible to talk to dead men's souls, and that people who claim to have talked to or seen the ghost of a deceased person were either taken for a ride by demons or were hallucinating. How come Saul could call Samuel's spirit and even converse with him? Could it be there's really something real about all those ghost stories.. like such usual ghost stories about any dark mansions where one can supposedly hear disturbing sounds, footsteps and cries? Or people who tell of weird ghostly appearances having the face and shape of a person they used to know? I always believed this to be encounters with demons. But that spirit Saul talked to in 1 Samuel 28 was undoubtedly Samuel's spirit. So, where are all those dead souls? Is there some "parallel world" for dead souls next to ours?
And is it possible that not every "ghostly encounter" is satanic?
In Revelation 6, when the fifth seal is opened, John sees the souls of martyrs under an altar who cry to God to avenge their blood on earth. What does this altar mean? And by meaning under the altar, doesn't it maybe mean, they're not yet in heaven? This would probably explain as to why it is possible for us to call back spirits any time we want - Samuel, too, said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" (what exactly does up mean, anyway? Literally up would mean up from hell, wouldn't it?) Well, I don't know how others interpret this sentence, but it seems like Samuel didn't want to be disturbed in his peace, yet Saul was calling him and he appeared.
I was wanting to reply to your question about the altar. I don't know for sure what was meant by under the altar. But one theory that I believe could have happened is that the altar is the "altar of incense" that was found in the temple at Jerusalem. This reference may have been used to symbolize the saints prayers ascending to God. Read Rev. 5:8 and tell me what you think. One other thing could be the "altar of sacrifice" which was in the temple as well. This would keep in line with the whole general area of martyrdom.
I am interested in your feedback. Good Question.
God Bless and Keep you,
Rusty
Last edited by rcj4039; 8th January 2007 at 01:03 AM.
Hi BoriCha and Rusty
great questions ?? i cannot explain
but looked up altar [ its sacrifice] and thought the Blood of the Lamb of God is the perfect and holy sacrifice for sin and death
so its says that those comming out of great tribulation have been washed in the blood of the Lamb
makes the white robes ''putting on'' the righteousness [whitness ] white coved clothing robe by faith in Jesus Christ what God requires to be saved new heart and Spirit
you cannot be at the wedding feast without the white robe [ enter the marriage supper] matt 22 Kingdom of Heaven
' seems this was Done at the Cross of Jesus Christ rev chapters 6 and 7 both to me are speaking of the Cross of Jesus Christ and what was done there they are rasied up now to me cause of Matt And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; Mat 27:52And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose,
And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.
the veil torn[ what was Hidden now is revealed getting revelation ] is Jesus Christ flesh at the Cross in hebrews 10 explains this to me
Hbr 10:20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil,
thatistosay, his flesh;
And [having] an high priest over the house of God;
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith,
having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, [new blood Spirit ]and our bodies washed with pure water...[made white pure clean holy as He is Holy ]
what came out of Jesus side with the spear from the soldier was water and blood the baptism of water poured out on us to me [dry and thirsty ground]
so much is symbolic and thats hard to discern [figure out ]
what is the water and Blood baptisms ? above the washing of the water of the Word is to give us a clean conscience [ good start] and the blood or spirit life in the blood baptism [good end ] being in the Spirit or Life in Christ the beginning and the End
1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
having the Word and Spirit'' both'' dwelling within you
In Revelation 6, when the fifth seal is opened, John sees the souls of martyrs under an altar who cry to God to avenge their blood on earth. What does this altar mean? And by meaning under the altar, doesn't it maybe mean, they're not yet in heaven? This would probably explain as to why it is possible for us to call back spirits any time we want - Samuel, too, said "Why have you disturbed me by bringing me up?" (what exactly does up mean, anyway? Literally up would mean up from hell, wouldn't it?) Well, I don't know how others interpret this sentence, but it seems like Samuel didn't want to be disturbed in his peace, yet Saul was calling him and he appeared.
i have read this account before it was the witch from Endor saul having Gods spirit removed from him and a troubling spirit within him , failed to trust God and seeked help outside of God driven to worship[ trust] by this spirit within him , lost it all by Endor rebelling against Gods will ... samuel was a prophet of God he was annoited from birth to hannah[grace] and the child grew in favor of the Lord and man
spoke on Gods behalf Saul didnt want to loose this but ended up loosing everything
Psa 83:10 [Which] perished at Endor: they became [as] dung for the earth [waste]
fountain of Dor; i.e., "of the age", a place in the territory of Issachar
To Endor, Saul resorted to consult one reputed to be a witch on the eve of his last engagement with the Philistines ( 1Sa 28:7). It is identified with the modern village of Endur, "a dirty hamlet of some twenty houses, or rather huts, most of them falling to ruin," on the northern slope of Little Hermon, about 7 miles from Jezreel.
looked some of this up i was also curious about it , you sparked my interest