Many non muslims out of ignorance of not having read the quran,claim that Mohamed wrote the Quran. many claim that Mohamesd (Pbuh) outrightly copied wholesale from the Old testament. Ask yourself, why, why would Mohamed (pbuh) copy from the OT if he was creating another religion, if he was writing the quran?What would it benefit him? He was arab,orphan and poor what would it benefit him to write whole chapters about Jewish Prophets? What would it benefit him to write the whole story of Mary and Jesus? Would itnot have been more beneficial to him to Write about his mother Aminah or his wife Khadijah as being great women.Would it not befit and benefit more to write about his father and his Uncle Abu Taleb who was very well known among the pagans rather than Praise Jesus , Moses and Jonah and Joseph and so on.
What would it benefit him other than that it was not written by him but all his was a revelation to him from a source who knew the truth about all this long before Mohamed (pbuh) was even created. The quran tells the story of Mary and how when she was a child she was offered to the Temple as an oath made by her mother Chapter 3 verses 35-44.
35. (Remember) when the wife of 'Imrān said: "O my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knowing."
36. Then when she delivered her [child Maryam (Mary)], she said: "O my Lord! I have delivered a female child," - and Allāh knew better what she delivered, - "And the male is not like the female, and I have named her Maryam (Mary), and I seek refuge with You (Allāh) for her and for her offspring from Shaitan (Satan), the outcast."
37. So her Lord (Allāh) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zakariyā (Zachariya). Every time he entered Al-Mihrāb to (visit) her , he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Maryam (Mary)! From where have you got this?" She said, "This is from Allāh." Verily, Allāh provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit."
38. At that time Zakariyā (Zachariya) invoked his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant me from You, a good offspring. You are indeed the All-Hearer of invocation."
39. Then the angels called him, while he was standing in prayer in Al-Mihrāb (a praying place or a private room), (saying): "Allāh gives you glad tidings of Yahya (John), confirming (believing in) the Word from Allāh [i.e. the creation of 'Iesa (Jesus), the Word from Allāh ("Be!" - and he was!)], noble, keeping away from sexual relations with women, a Prophet, from among the righteous."
40. He said: "O my Lord! How can I have a son when I am very old, and my wife is barren?" Allāh said: "Thus Allāh does what He wills."
41. He said: "O my Lord! Make a sign for me." Allāh said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak to mankind for three days except with signals. And remember your Lord much (by praising Him again and again), and glorify (Him) in the afternoon and in the morning."
42. And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allāh has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamīn (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)."
43. O Mary! "Submit yourself with obedience to your Lord (Allāh, by worshipping none but Him Alone) and prostrate yourself, and Irkā'i (bow down etc.) along with Ar-Rāki'ūn (those who bow down etc.)."
44. This is a part of the news of the Ghaib (unseen, i.e. the news of the past nations of which you have no knowledge) which We inspire you with (O Muhammad You were not with them, when they cast lots with their pens as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam (Mary); nor were you with them when they disputed.
as we see above in the verses quoted that this is not from the OT nor from the NT as a matter of fact neither OT nor NT devotes this type of information to Mary mother of Jesu nor Zakaria. and as we can see verse 44 GOD says clearly that Mohmed was not ther to witness this and many other things about other Prophet of the past and this proves that the quran could only have been revealed by non else than the One who made all this take place.The one and only GOD my GOD and your GOD.
Think about it, all this and every thing else in the Quran could only be a reveltion from the almighty creator.Read the Truth, read the Quran then decide if this could have been written by a mere man who was not present to witness any of it. why would Mohamed praise the competition i.e Jesus as a great man who performed miracles as the next verses mention, miracles that Christians don't even beleiev in.
Chapter 3 verses 45-51
45. (Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allāh gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allāh." 46. "He will speak to the people in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous." 47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allāh creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is. 48. And He (Allāh) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.), (and) the Taurāt (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). 49. And will make him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allāh's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allāh's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. 50. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurāt (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allāh and obey me. 51. Truly! Allāh is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path.
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the Just
__________________ The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
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Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Why? Look at the final result, where and who was he at the end? He practically made himself to be a king/God.
"Whom ever disobeys me or any of my commanders is disobeying Allah.", Mohammed.
Many non muslims out of ignorance of not having read the quran,claim that Mohamed wrote the Quran.
He made others memorize it for him and write it for him.
many claim that Mohamesd (Pbuh) outrightly copied wholesale from the Old testament. Ask yourself, why, why would Mohamed (pbuh) copy from the OT if he was creating another religion, if he was writing the quran?
Because Mohammed was a clever man, he knew not to re-invent the wheel. Why create new beliefs, when there was one already out there who was believed by many to be a fact (which was christianity)?
What would it benefit him? He was arab,orphan and poor what would it benefit him to write whole chapters about Jewish Prophets?
This doesn't require a high school degree I think, this is obvious right in your face.
You said he was orphan and poor... and at the end, was he still alone and poor? I'll let you finish it.
What would it benefit him to write the whole story of Mary and Jesus? Would itnot have been more beneficial to him to Write about his mother Aminah or his wife Khadijah as being great women.
If one is trying to do what Mohammed did, and one wants to be succesful, one would not want to be the spotlight. Mohammed didn't claim to be a God or holy or that he knew someone like that... it wouldn't be as believable. Rather, Mohammed had Allah at his control.
__________________ "When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion." David Hume
Why? Look at the final result, where and who was he at the end? He practically made himself to be a king/God.
"Whom ever disobeys me or any of my commanders is disobeying Allah.", Mohammed..
This shows that you even more misinformed of the prophet mohamed, he never claimed to be a king or a GOD as Christian claim Jesus was by telling people that if they disobey him they are disobeying in no way makes him a GOD. If you have a leader or a commander and he gives you orders are you not meant to follow his orders or do you beleive in what you want. His words were from GOd so by dsi obeying him one would disobey GOD.Oh! by the way just for refernecs sake please don't just say Mohmed said this and he said that please give evidences so others can very if you are truthful or not.
Originally Posted by 0rion
He made others memorize it for him and write it for him...
Again one who has not read the Quran is quick to make assumptions. mohamed (pbuh) must have been a genius and so must muslims be order to make people memorise the whole Quran. no man has the power to make millions memorise such greatness, this comes only from GOD.Allah certifies in the Quran that only those who choose to be Guided will do so others may sit down for the whole of their lives and even if they memorise the Quran like parrotts will never really gain the real essence of it.Thed Quran makes it clear in chapter 2 verse 2: 1. Alif-Lām-Mīm. [These letters are one of the miracles of the Qur'ān and none but Allāh (Alone) knows their meanings]. 2. This is the Book (the Qur'ān), whereof there is no doubt, a guidance to those who are Al-Muttaqūn [the pious and righteous persons who fear Allāh much (abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds which He has forbidden) and love Allāh much (perform all kinds of good deeds which He has ordained)].
Clearcut not just any one can memorise such greatness.
Originally Posted by 0rion
Because Mohammed was a clever man, he knew not to re-invent the wheel. Why create new beliefs, when there was one already out there who was believed by many to be a fact (which was christianity)?...
so you are one of those who contradicts your selves while trying to prove the Quran wrong, you say "why create new beleifs,when there was one already out there who was believed by many to be a fact",.9 out of 10 jews and christians would perfer to beleive that Mohamed created a new religion and had nothing to do with Judaism and christianity.Many even claim that they even worship a different GOD, however when it suits then they claim he borrowed from their beleifs.it is either one or the other cannot be boy and girl at the same time.
Originally Posted by 0rion
This doesn't require a high school degree I think, this is obvious right in your face.)...
No it is not obvious, even the worst enemies of mohamed know he was unlearned and if it does not take a high school degree to write the Quran i challenge you like Allah has challenged others in the Quran, Just bring one chapter like it.i am not acsking for much from one with a high school degree. Just one chapter, bearing in mind that the smallest chapter in the Quran contains only 3 verses.Easy anyone with a High school degree can do it.By the way when the challenge was made it referred to the language of Arabic that even the greatest Poets of Arabia were unable to compete with it.So Bring 'em on.
Originally Posted by 0rion
You said he was orphan and poor... and at the end, was he still alone and poor? I'll let you finish it....
I advise you go and read up on his biography( genuine ones not ones written by his enemies the Missionaries). may be then you will see that when he died he he had over 120 000 followers and now billions and still counting. And if poverty if a way to prove he was not a prophet prove to me how rich Jesus or Moses were when they left this world. Jesu even make it clear that his kindom was not in this world.he had no materials gains to leave behind.so does that undermine jesus as a prophet or even as a GOD cos how could GOD or the son of GOD be poor.He should own everything in this world.
Originally Posted by 0rion
If one is trying to do what Mohammed did, and one wants to be succesful, one would not want to be the spotlight. Mohammed didn't claim to be a God or holy or that he knew someone like that... it wouldn't be as believable. Rather, Mohammed had Allah at his control.
Their are loads of false prophets today that own palace and millions that they have amassed, this itself proves that they are not true prophet again Jesus too was poor he did not even have a proper place to lay his head when he went on his mission..
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the just
__________________ The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Deutronomy 24:16 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
This shows that you even more misinformed of the prophet mohamed, he never claimed to be a king or a GOD as Christian claim Jesus was by telling people that if they disobey him they are disobeying in no way makes him a GOD.
Wasn't Jesus also proclaimed a King and Priest of the Jews?
Zephaniah 3:15 The LORD has taken away your judgments, He has cast out your enemy. The King of Israel, the LORD, [is] in your midst; You shall see disaster no more.
Mark 15:9 But Pilate answered them, saying, "Do you want me to release to you the King of the Jews?"
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"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
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Dan 9:21 Yea, whiles I [was] speaking 01696 in prayer 08605, even the man 0376 Gabriel 01403, whom I had seen 07200 in the vision 02377 at the beginning 08462, being caused to fly 03286 swiftly 03288, touched 05060 me about the time 06256 of the evening 06153 oblation 04503.
Hosea 10:8 Also the high places of Aven, the Sin of Israel, Shall be destroyed. The thorn and thistle shall grow on their altars; They shall say to the mountains, "Cover us!" And to the hills, "Fall on us!" [Revelation 6]
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Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 23rd December 2006 at 01:32 PM.
This shows that you even more misinformed of the prophet mohamed, he never claimed to be a king or a GOD as Christian claim Jesus was
yaqovzadeek... stop jumping to conclusions.
I said Mohammed made himself to be a king/god... I didn't say that he claimed himself to be a king/god.
See the difference?
by telling people that if they disobey him they are disobeying in no way makes him a GOD.
god not in the sense that he created the universe... don't be silly... pharaohs were king/gods.
Mohammed was able to command anyone to do anything as long as Mohammed said it was from Allah.
If you have a leader or a commander and he gives you orders are you not meant to follow his orders or do you beleive in what you want. His words were from GOd so by dsi obeying him one would disobey GOD.Oh! by the way just for refernecs sake please don't just say Mohmed said this and he said that please give evidences so others can very if you are truthful or not.
And I am more misinformed?
Sahih Muslim Book 020, Number 4518: It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Holy prophet said: Whoso obeys me obeys God, and whoso disobeys me disobeys God. Whoso obeys the commander (appointed by me) obeys me, and whoso disobeys the commander disobeys me.
To me it seems Allah was a puppet of Mohammed.
Again one who has not read the Quran is quick to make assumptions. mohamed (pbuh) must have been a genius and so must muslims be order to make people memorise the whole Quran. no man has the power to make millions memorise such greatness, this comes only from GOD.
What you have said is a logical absurdity, seriously....
A person could make anyone memorize anything. Specially when those people memorizing have to obey Mohammed.
Allah certifies in the Quran that only those who choose to be Guided will do so others may sit down for the whole of their lives and even if they memorise the Quran like parrotts will never really gain the real essence of it.
I guess Allah guides atheists.
Clearcut not just any one can memorise such greatness.
Yes, greatness by you because you revere it as greatness. Seems it is more common for people to memorize the quran than to memorize the bible or the book of mormon.
Originally Posted by 0rion
Because Mohammed was a clever man, he knew not to re-invent the wheel. Why create new beliefs, when there was one already out there who was believed by many to be a fact (which was christianity)?...
so you are one of those who contradicts your selves while trying to prove the Quran wrong, you say "why create new beleifs,when there was one already out there who was believed by many to be a fact",.9 out of 10 jews and christians would perfer to beleive that Mohamed created a new religion and had nothing to do with Judaism and christianity.
It would be helpful if you actually attempted to understand the conversation.
Creating new beliefs is different than creating a new religion.
For Mohammed to create new beliefs would mean that Islam would believe in the god that Mohammed made up.
For Mohammed to copy the beliefs of others(judaism, christianity), it would mean that Islam would believe in a god that others made up.
Many even claim that they even worship a different GOD, however when it suits then they claim he borrowed from their beleifs.it is either one or the other cannot be boy and girl at the same time.
Greek : Poseidon is the great god of the sea.
Copy : Poseidon is the ocean itself and a god.
Do you see how one can copy and create a different god in the process?
No it is not obvious, even the worst enemies of mohamed know he was unlearned and if it does not take a high school degree to write the Quran i challenge you like Allah has challenged others in the Quran, Just bring one chapter like it.i am not acsking for much from one with a high school degree. Just one chapter, bearing in mind that the smallest chapter in the Quran contains only 3 verses.Easy anyone with a High school degree can do it.By the way when the challenge was made it referred to the language of Arabic that even the greatest Poets of Arabia were unable to compete with it.So Bring 'em on.
I don't know why you bring this up, this is unrelated to what I said... but anyways, if I do create it , who is going to judge, you? Any masterpiece presented to you will always be turned down, don't you know that by now?
I advise you go and read up on his biography( genuine ones not ones written by his enemies the Missionaries). may be then you will see that when he died he he had over 120 000 followers and now billions and still counting. And if poverty if a way to prove he was not a prophet prove to me how rich Jesus or Moses were when they left this world. Jesu even make it clear that his kindom was not in this world.he had no materials gains to leave behind.so does that undermine jesus as a prophet or even as a GOD cos how could GOD or the son of GOD be poor.He should own everything in this world.
Geez!!! Could you do me a favor. Please try to read and understand stuff that is written to you! Please, could you do that?
My point was this:
- Mohammed was an orphan and poor.
- After Mohammed created his religion and had followers he was not alone and definitely not poor anymore.
- Mohammed commanded thosands of followers as you said he had by mere saying that Allah commanded it.
What did have to gain? Everything! To this I said it was plain obvious.
I never said Mohammed died poor, and if you believe that he did, it is you who would need to read up on his history.
Their are loads of false prophets today that own palace and millions that they have amassed, this itself proves that they are not true prophet again Jesus too was poor he did not even have a proper place to lay his head when he went on his mission..
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the just
Well, there it is... you said it, I guess that proves that Mohammed was a false prophet as well.
__________________ "When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion." David Hume
"I said Mohammed made himself to be a king/god... I didn't say that he claimed himself to be a king/god."
Doesn't make sense, what benefit he (pbuh) derived from this? Makkan chiefs offered to make him (pbuh) king and give him all the riches on the condition that he (pbuh) stop preaching. On the contrary, he choose to live a life of hardships:
Mode of living
His house was but a hut with walls of unbaked clay and a thatched roof of palm leaves covered by camel skin. He had separate apartments for his wives, a small room for each made of similar materials. His own apartment contained a rope cot, a pillow stuffed with palm leaves , the skin of some animal spread on the floor and a water bag of leather and some weapons. These were all his earthly belongings, besides a camel, a horse, and an ass and some land which he had aquired in the later part of his life (Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud). Once a few of his disciples, noticing the imprint of his mattress on his body, wished to give him a softer bed but he politely declined the offer saying,
"What have I to do with worldly things. My connection with the world is like that of a traveler resting for a while underneath the shade of a tree and then moving on."
Amr Ibn Al-Harith, a brother in law of the prophet (pbuh), says that when the prophet died, he did not leave a cent, a slave man or woman, or any property except his white mule, his weapons and a piece of land which he had dedicated for the good of the community (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari).
He advised the people to live simple lives and himself practised great austerities. Even when he had become the virtual king of arabia, he lived an austere life bordering on privation. His wife Aiysha (ra) says that there was hardly a day in his life when he had two square meals (Muslim, Sahih Muslim, Vol.2, pg 198). When he died there was nothing in his house except a few seeds of barley left from a mound of the grain obtained from a Jew by pawning his armour (Bukhari, Sahih Bukhari, Chapter "Aljihad").
He had declared unlawful for himself and his family anything given by the people by way of zakat or sadaqa (types of charity). He was so particular about this that he would not appoint any member of his family as a zakat collector (Sahah-Kitab Sadqat).
Sahih Muslim Book 020, Number 4518: It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Holy prophet said: Whoso obeys me obeys God, and whoso disobeys me disobeys God. Whoso obeys the commander (appointed by me) obeys me, and whoso disobeys the commander disobeys me.
He is the prophet of God what do you expect? Believers shouldn't obey are prophet?
__________________
The Old Testament (Torah): "Hear, O Israel: The Lord is ONE!"( Deuteronomy 6:4)
The New Testament (The Gospel): "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is ONE Lord" (Mark 12:29)
The FINAL Testament (The Qu'ran): "And your God is ONE God: there is no god but He"(al-Bakarah 2:163)
Doesn't make sense, what benefit he (pbuh) derived from this? Makkan chiefs offered to make him (pbuh) king and give him all the riches on the condition that he (pbuh) stop preaching. On the contrary, he choose to live a life of hardships:
Make him King? Could those who make him King be able to take away his power as well? And him having accepted that offer would just ruin his chances of people actually believing him.... and it almost did when he admitted that Allah had three daughters.
IronEagle, why would Mohammed accept such offer when he was already king?
He is the prophet of God what do you expect? Believers shouldn't obey are prophet?
And his commanders... right...
Imagine this possibility, Mohammed chose what Allah commanded.
__________________ "When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion." David Hume
I said Mohammed made himself to be a king/god... I didn't say that he claimed himself to be a king/god.
See the difference?
god not in the sense that he created the universe... don't be silly... pharaohs were king/gods.
Mohammed was able to command anyone to do anything as long as Mohammed said it was from Allah.
And I am more misinformed?
Sahih Muslim Book 020, Number 4518: It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Holy prophet said: Whoso obeys me obeys God, and whoso disobeys me disobeys God. Whoso obeys the commander (appointed by me) obeys me, and whoso disobeys the commander disobeys me.
To me it seems Allah was a puppet of Mohammed.
What you have said is a logical absurdity, seriously....
A person could make anyone memorize anything. Specially when those people memorizing have to obey Mohammed.
I guess Allah guides atheists.
Yes, greatness by you because you revere it as greatness. Seems it is more common for people to memorize the quran than to memorize the bible or the book of mormon.
It would be helpful if you actually attempted to understand the conversation.
Creating new beliefs is different than creating a new religion.
For Mohammed to create new beliefs would mean that Islam would believe in the god that Mohammed made up.
For Mohammed to copy the beliefs of others(judaism, christianity), it would mean that Islam would believe in a god that others made up.
Greek : Poseidon is the great god of the sea.
Copy : Poseidon is the ocean itself and a god.
Do you see how one can copy and create a different god in the process?
I don't know why you bring this up, this is unrelated to what I said... but anyways, if I do create it , who is going to judge, you? Any masterpiece presented to you will always be turned down, don't you know that by now?
Geez!!! Could you do me a favor. Please try to read and understand stuff that is written to you! Please, could you do that?
My point was this:
- Mohammed was an orphan and poor.
- After Mohammed created his religion and had followers he was not alone and definitely not poor anymore.
- Mohammed commanded thosands of followers as you said he had by mere saying that Allah commanded it.
What did have to gain? Everything! To this I said it was plain obvious.
I never said Mohammed died poor, and if you believe that he did, it is you who would need to read up on his history.
Well, there it is... you said it, I guess that proves that Mohammed was a false prophet as well.
I think you have contradicted yourself from the onset.My question was why would mohamed write a book and Praise his oppostion which is supposed to be Christianity and judaism what would he benefit.You answer to make himself a King/God, wher does a commander or a leader who gives any command to his forces or his men maike himself a god by asking them to obey him.What are commanders for, to disobey? When US soldiers are caught with their pants down killing Innocent civilians or torturing in Abu Ghuraib they claim they were following orders does that mean they made their commanders into GODs and kings cos if they refused they would be imprisoned and court martialed and punished.
No body was forced to Obey him, once they accepted his message and he became their leader what do you expect for them to refuse what he commanded them.If jesus told his disciples to follow him , leave all the worldly materials and follow him what do you expect them to say to him no i will still take all i want with me but i will follow you. if my boss gives me an order to wear uniform and come to work on time does that make him King and GOD.
You oppose Islam fine that is your choice but do not try to demonise the prophet mohamed claiming he did things that he did not.
However my question to others with more knowledge still stands and less pride and haughtiness is:
Why would mohamed Write a book( if he did write it) and praise his competition what did he have to gain other than that it did not come from him but he was talking from a higher authority?
Peace
Yaqovzadeek
aka James the just
__________________ The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
Deutronomy 24:16 To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
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