35. (Remember) when the wife of 'Imrān said: "O my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me. Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knowing."
What does this mean that Mary was to be exempt from all worldly work? She was not a priestess as indicated here ... to serve your place of worship ... unless of course, her offspring here is referring to what would be worshipped.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
36. Then when she delivered her [child Maryam (Mary)], she said: "O my Lord! I have delivered a female child," - and Allāh knew better what she delivered, - "And the male is not like the female, and I have named her Maryam (Mary), and I seek refuge with You (Allāh) for her and for her offspring from Shaitan (Satan), the outcast."
Why does it say the male is not like the female? I mean we know this, this is not revelatory in distinguishing sexes at birth.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
37. So her Lord (Allāh) accepted her with goodly acceptance. He made her grow in a good manner and put her under the care of Zakariyā (Zachariya). Every time he entered Al-Mihrāb to (visit) her , he found her supplied with sustenance. He said: "O Maryam (Mary)! From where have you got this?" She said, "This is from Allāh." Verily, Allāh provides sustenance to whom He wills, without limit."
So the Quran acknowledges that Mary's baby came from Allah.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
38. At that time Zakariyā (Zachariya) invoked his Lord, saying: "O my Lord! Grant me from You, a good offspring. You are indeed the All-Hearer of invocation."
Did he really need to make this invocation? As the offspring was already for Allah anyway, which would mean that it would be a good offspring.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
39. Then the angels called him, while he was standing in prayer in Al-Mihrāb (a praying place or a private room), (saying): "Allāh gives you glad tidings of Yahya (John), confirming (believing in) the Word from Allāh [i.e. the creation of 'Iesa (Jesus), the Word from Allāh ("Be!" - and he was!)], noble, keeping away from sexual relations with women, a Prophet, from among the righteous."
Yes, here the Quran admits Jesus is the Word from Allah. He is the Word of God. What is the Word of God?
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
40. He said: "O my Lord! How can I have a son when I am very old, and my wife is barren?" Allāh said: "Thus Allāh does what He wills."
Was Joseph very old? Or has Mohammed switched back to Abraham and Sara here? Mary was a young woman and was not barren.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
41. He said: "O my Lord! Make a sign for me." Allāh said: "Your sign is that you shall not speak to mankind for three days except with signals. And remember your Lord much (by praising Him again and again), and glorify (Him) in the afternoon and in the morning."
Why three days? Is this an inference to the Trinity?
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
42. And (remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allāh has chosen you, purified you (from polytheism and disbelief), and chosen you above the women of the 'Alamīn (mankind and jinns) (of her lifetime)."
Mary was a devout Jew! Why would she be purified from polytheism and disbelief?
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
43. O Mary! "Submit yourself with obedience to your Lord (Allāh, by worshipping none but Him Alone) and prostrate yourself, and Irkā'i (bow down etc.) along with Ar-Rāki'ūn (those who bow down etc.)."
Why is she commanded to submit, when God had chosen her as a vessel to bare His Son? Wouldn't she have already been yielded unto God?
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
44. This is a part of the news of the Ghaib (unseen, i.e. the news of the past nations of which you have no knowledge) which We inspire you with (O Muhammad You were not with them, when they cast lots with their pens as to which of them should be charged with the care of Maryam (Mary); nor were you with them when they disputed.
What does it means to cast lots with pens? Were pens invented in those days? Joseph was in charge of Mary, so why cast lots?
Chapter 3 verses 45-51
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
45. (Remember) when the angels said: "O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allāh gives you the glad tidings of a Word ["Be!" - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), the son of Maryam (Mary), held in honour in this world and in the Hereafter, and will be one of those who are near to Allāh."
Yes, Muslims agree that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Hallelujah.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
46. "He will speak to the people in the cradle and in manhood, and he will be one of the righteous."
How did he speak in the cradle?
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allāh creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is.
No problem here.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
48. And He (Allāh) will teach him ['Iesa (Jesus)] the Book and Al-Hikmah (i.e. the Sunnah, the faultless speech of the Prophets, wisdom, etc.), (and) the Taurāt (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). 49. And will make him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allāh's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allāh's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe.
Why the Injeel? - the gospels were written after Jesus' death.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
50. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurāt (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allāh and obey me.
Was Israel still worshipping polytheist gods at this time? I don't think so. The prophets of old warned Israel to stop playing the harlot. There was no need for Mohammed to be making these comments.
Originally Posted by yaqovzadeek
51. Truly! Allāh is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him (Alone). This is the Straight Path.
What is the straight path?
Peace.
__________________
"Whoever perseveres in believing in me will be able to do what I do;
and greater things than these shall he do because I am going to my Father." (John 14: 12)
"Blessed are the PURE in heart for they shall see God."
What does this mean that Mary was to be exempt from all worldly work? She was not a priestess as indicated here ... to serve your place of worship ... unless of course, her offspring here is referring to what would be worshipped..
Hi lady,how art though.
lady , lady, lady , you have it wrong there the verse mentions that the child she was going to give birth to was going to be exempt form worldy work, it is not stating only marry but any child she would give birth too was going to be given to the temple to serve GOD, she was from a priestly family.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Why does it say the male is not like the female? I mean we know this, this is not revelatory in distinguishing sexes at birth...
lady a male for service to the temple would be different than a female. there is no distinguising of the sexes here it is just concerning service to the temple.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
So the Quran acknowledges that Mary's baby came from Allah....
every comes from GOD, were you not created by GOD or did you create yourself.However my dear lady the verse here concerns sustenance, food that zakaria found she had that others did not have.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Did he really need to make this invocation? As the offspring was already for Allah anyway, which would mean that it would be a good offspring.....
Of course, we always have to make invocation to GOD for every thing even pious children.however again you are confusing two issues here. Zakaria was supplicating to god to give him a pious child. The child that was offered to the temple was mary.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Yes, here the Quran admits Jesus is the Word from Allah. He is the Word of God. What is the Word of God?.....
yes the word of GOd does not mean GOD. Islam beleives that when GOD wants something he just say "BE", i.e just the Will of GOd and it happens. Jesus too was a word just like Adam where allah created the souls and said be and it was.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Was Joseph very old? Or has Mohammed switched back to Abraham and Sara here? Mary was a young woman and was not barren......
lady wake up , go read the quran or check even your bible.This verse from the quran is talking about Zakaria and his wife Elizabeth.She was barren, nothing to do here with Joseph and mary. By the way it is not Mohamed speaking.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Why three days? Is this an inference to the Trinity?
does every thing that mentions three have to infer to the trinity.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Mary was a devout Jew! Why would she be purified from polytheism and disbelief??
Allah states that the angels commanded Maryam to increase acts of worship, humbleness, submission, prostration, bowing, and so forth, so that she would acquire what Allah had decreed for her, as a test for her. Yet, this test also earned her a higher grade in this life and the Hereafter, for Allah demonstrated His might by creating a son inside her without male intervention.
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Why is she commanded to submit, when God had chosen her as a vessel to bare His Son? Wouldn't she have already been yielded unto God?
what are you trying to insinuate that even Jesus never submitted himself to the almighty creator i can prove you wrong on that.so what ifhis mother submitted to her creator
What does it means to cast lots with pens? Were pens invented in those days? Joseph was in charge of Mary, so why cast lots?[/quote] Again was this deliberate or is it a lack of knowledge, were pens invented in those days? you ask, what were they writing their books with.if pens were not invented then the following bible verse is questionable then: How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8
So what pens are the bible speaking about here if they were not invented then
secondly again lady this verse refers to zakaria and the time when mary was smaller nothing to do with Joseph here.he does not even fit into the equation. pls educate yourself read the Quran
Originally Posted by AlHannah
Chapter 3 verses 45-51
Yes, Muslims agree that Jesus Christ is the Messiah. Hallelujah.
How did he speak in the cradle?
No problem here.
Why the Injeel? -the gospels were written after Jesus' death.
Was Israel still worshipping polytheist gods at this time? I don't think so. The prophets of old warned Israel to stop playing the harlot. There was no need for Mohammed to be making these comments.
What is the straight path?
Peace.
Muslims sure do beleive he was a messiah but messiah does not mean GOD nor son of GOD and even your bible confirms that. Now you are a spoilsport for raising this issue i was going to create a thread about the messiah, but you bust my bubble.Go check what messiah mean missi then come back and tell me.
How did he speak in the cradle?Ever heard of the power of GOD he just says be and it is.if he can create man Adam with no father and no mother surely to make a child speak in the cradle must be a piece of cake for him.
Who says the injeel refers to matthew , mark , luke and John and paul's writings. Was that what jesus was preaching when he was around the book of the 4 unknowns.
what is the Straight path?
If you srop refusing to read the quran and read it you will find out in there what is the straight path,
Still does not answer my question that if mohamed did write the Quran why would he write about the competition, about Jesus and his mother.Why promote the competition, why did he not write about his mother or his wife.???? And what would he benefit from praising the competition if he too was not a prophet from the same GOD
in the meantime chill out.
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just
__________________ The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
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Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Last edited by yaqovzadeek; 24th December 2006 at 07:13 AM.
Could you imagin what God would be like if he owned everything, he would be like the next rapper.
Anyways why should God own everything?
So what you tryin' to say Every thing in this universe does not belong to GOD who does it belong to then?
peace
yaqovzadeek
aka James the just
__________________ The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
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Mr 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
I think you have contradicted yourself from the onset.
No, it seems that you are unable to understand.
My question was why would mohamed write a book and Praise his oppostion which is supposed to be Christianity and judaism what would he benefit.
That is just the beginning.
Judaism and Christianity were thought to be facts by the majority just as Earth was thought to be flat. Would it be more believable for Mohammed to come up with a book about elves or would it be more believable if he used the things which people already believe?
Now, I don't think what I wrote above is hard to understand.
What would Mohammed gain from that? Well, followers! And what would Mohammed gain from having followers? Well, power.
You answer to make himself a King/God, wher does a commander or a leader who gives any command to his forces or his men maike himself a god by asking them to obey him.
Are you serious with that question?
What are commanders for, to disobey?
Where are you getting this?
It has been narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Holy prophet said: Whoso obeys me obeys God, and whoso disobeys me disobeys God. Whoso obeys the commander (appointed by me) obeys me, and whoso disobeys the commander disobeys me.
It doesn't say that the commanders have to obey Mohammed, it says that his followers have to obey him and anyone he appoints as a commander. Please read slowly so you can understand what you are reading.
When US soldiers are caught with their pants down killing Innocent civilians or torturing in Abu Ghuraib they claim they were following orders does that mean they made their commanders into GODs and kings cos if they refused they would be imprisoned and court martialed and punished.
Oh please, you are lost and confused with what we are talking about. The authority those soldiers had is nothing compared to the authority Mohammed had his commanders had... they were leaders of an empire.
No body was forced to Obey him, once they accepted his message and he became their leader what do you expect for them to refuse what he commanded them.
Yes, nobody was forced to obey him... and his empire was given to him.
If jesus told his disciples to follow him , leave all the worldly materials and follow him what do you expect them to say to him no i will still take all i want with me but i will follow you. if my boss gives me an order to wear uniform and come to work on time does that make him King and GOD.
Your boss gives pays you, he could order you to clean toilets if he wants. It doesn't make him king because your example has nothing to do with our conversation. You could leave at anytime, and your boss does not rule over you.
Mohammad on the other hand, claimed that anything that came out of his mouth was an order from god and you had to obey him. Once you were his follower you could not leave, else the punishment for leaving islam is death. If you lived under the empire of Mohammed, you would have to do whatever he ordered because that whole area was under his and his commanders commands.
You oppose Islam fine that is your choice but do not try to demonise the prophet mohamed claiming he did things that he did not.
Did he not say that if you disobeyed him you are disobeying God? Isn't that the same thing as saying that he is God in the flesh? I am not demonizing him, if you
believe so, then you only got that from your own scriptures.
However my question to others with more knowledge still stands and less pride and haughtiness is:
Why would mohamed Write a book( if he did write it) and praise his competition what did he have to gain other than that it did not come from him but he was talking from a higher authority?
Are you kidding? What, do you want them to answer with... something that you are going to like and will try to prove your religion right? Why bother ask these questions if you don't like for your religion to be criticized?
__________________ "When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion." David Hume
What does it means to cast lots with pens? Were pens invented in those days? Joseph was in charge of Mary, so why cast lots?
Again was this deliberate or is it a lack of knowledge, were pens invented in those days? you ask, what were they writing their books with.if pens were not invented then the following bible verse is questionable then: How can you say, 'We are wise, and the law of the LORD is with us'? But, behold, the false pen of the scribes has made it into a lie. (From the RSV Bible, Jeremiah 8:8
So what pens are the bible speaking about here if they were not invented then
secondly again lady this verse refers to zakaria and the time when mary was smaller nothing to do with Joseph here.he does not even fit into the equation. pls educate yourself read the Quran
[/quote]Hi. How did the "pen of iron" write the "sin of Judah" in Jeremiah 17?
Jeremiah 8:8 How do ye say, We [are] wise, And the law of Jehovah [is] with us? Surely, lo, falsely it hath wrought, The false pen of scribes.
`et (Strong's 05842) occurs 4 times in 4 verses:
05842 `et {ate} from 05860 (contracted) in the sense of swooping, i.e. side-long
stroke; TWOT - 1600; n m
AV - pen 4; 4
1) stylus 1a) iron stylus with diamond tip used to write on stone or metal 1b) reed pen used on a roll 5842 `et ate from 5860 (contracted) in the sense of swooping, i.e. side-long stroke; a stylus or marking stick:--pen.
Jeremiah 17:1 The sin of Judah is written with a pen of iron, With the point of a diamond, Graven on the tablet of their heart, And on the horns of your altars,
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I think the better question is why Christians seem so eager to disregard Muhammad when He believed and taught of the same God of Christianity and Judaism? Why is the notion of the angel Gabriel (the same one of the Bible) visiting someone with a mission for him so hard to at least consider? After all, it isn't as if he were teaching this stuff to Jews and Christians and using their current beliefs in order to gain credibility. He was mostly teaching it to pagans and it was radical stuff to them. This was during a time and in an area of the world that was savage and Godless. Women would bury their female babies alive, tribes of men went around raping and slaughtering other tribes on a daily basis and eating the still warm livers of their freshly killed enemies. It was complete lawlessness and Godlessness. The Gospels had not reached those people and given their current state, probably wouldn't for a very long time.
Now, is it even slightly possible that God sent down an angel with a specific mission for a specific people who's society was critically ill and in desperate need of help? Is it at all possible that the required remedy for this particularly nasty illness would be somewhat harsher than what was taught before?
I don't see how believing that Muhammad was in communication with Gabriel goes against anything taught in the Bible.
__________________ 'He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear.' 'He that hath an eye to see, let him see.'
I think the better question is why Christians seem so eager to disregard Muhammad when He believed and taught of the same God of Christianity and Judaism?
Perhaps that could be another question, but I think everyone here was addressing the OP.
Why is the notion of the angel Gabriel (the same one of the Bible) visiting someone with a mission for him so hard to at least consider? After all, it isn't as if he were teaching this stuff to Jews and Christians and using their current beliefs in order to gain credibility. He was mostly teaching it to pagans and it was radical stuff to them.
If Mohammed taught it to christians or jews they would be really skeptic of him and would not believe him. You bring about a good point though... by Mohammed teaching christian/jew beliefs to pagans, it would seem more believable than Mohammed teaching about elves.
This was during a time and in an area of the world that was savage and Godless. Women would bury their female babies alive, tribes of men went around raping and slaughtering other tribes on a daily basis and eating the still warm livers of their freshly killed enemies. It was complete lawlessness and Godlessness. The Gospels had not reached those people and given their current state, probably wouldn't for a very long time.
hmm... nice stories, where did you hear about this by the way?
Now, is it even slightly possible that God sent down an angel with a specific mission for a specific people who's society was critically ill and in desperate need of help? Is it at all possible that the required remedy for this particularly nasty illness would be somewhat harsher than what was taught before?
Now, is it even slightly possible that God didn't send down anything at all, ever?
Africa is in a bad state right now with Aids and all, and I don't really see Gabriel comming down again. It is funny how all these things only happen when there are no witnesses.
__________________ "When we run over libraries, persuaded of these principles, what havoc must we make? If we take in our hand any volume; of divinity or school metaphysics, for instance; let us ask, Does it contain any abstract reasoning concerning quantity or number? No. Does it contain any experimental reasoning concerning matter of fact and existence? No. Commit it then to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion." David Hume
Perhaps that could be another question, but I think everyone here was addressing the OP.
True. I guess I just interpreted the OP as being directed toward Christians who believe in the Bible but think Muhammad was some kind of imposter in which case I just wanted to point out how it's somewhat strange that there is so much resistance by Christians to the idea that God didn't stop revealing things after the books that make up the Bible were collected and put together.
Originally Posted by 0rion
If Mohammed taught it to christians or jews they would be really skeptic of him and would not believe him. You bring about a good point though... by Mohammed teaching christian/jew beliefs to pagans, it would seem more believable than Mohammed teaching about elves.
Well, if you operate under the assumption that Muhammad was a fraud then obviously it couldn't be seen any other way than the sneaky selecting of "believable" material. If it was all true, however, it would still be true during Muhammad's time and given the circumstances He would have special access to the most accurate records of that knowledge.
Originally Posted by 0rion
hmm... nice stories, where did you hear about this by the way?
Just paraphrasing from some books i've read in the past as well as a discovery channel special here and there. I've gotten the impression that all that stuff was pretty well documented so i never questioned it too much but i'm not certain.
Originally Posted by 0rion
Now, is it even slightly possible that God didn't send down anything at all, ever?
Anyone who says otherwise either has some first hand knowledge that I don't or isn't being truthful with themselves. My personal opinion of it all leans toward the belief that much of it is based in reality only grossly misunderstood by most popular religious beliefs today. These misunderstandings lead to superstitions that cause backlashes and the backlashes are then naturally tempted to think that all of it is fake.
Originally Posted by 0rion
Africa is in a bad state right now with Aids and all, and I don't really see Gabriel comming down again. It is funny how all these things only happen when there are no witnesses.
I don't know. Even if it's all true, I can understand why God wouldn't just come down to clear up every little problem of ours and even when He did I can understand why it wouldn't be made obvious and completely public so I can't really say that I find it strange.
__________________ 'He that hath an ear to hear, let him hear.' 'He that hath an eye to see, let him see.'