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3rd July 2003, 07:43 PM
|  | Pro Deo et Patria
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Let us, therefore, forget for a while the technical discussions about the Church, its mission, its methods. Not that these discussions are wrong or unnecessary—but they can be useful and meaningful only within a fundamental context, and that context is the “great joy” from which everything else in Christianity developed and acquired its meaning."
---Fr. Alexander Schmemann, “For the Life of the World.” |
3rd July 2003, 07:43 PM
|  | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
40 
| | Join Date: 7th March 2002
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Reps: 408,703,705,619,875,392 (power: 408,703,705,619,902) | | Originally Posted by Shelb5 I'm just kidding, you seem to be in a bad mood today???
Nope. Not at all. 
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"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
3rd July 2003, 07:48 PM
| | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
40
| | Join Date: 7th March 2002
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Reps: 408,703,705,619,875,392 (power: 408,703,705,619,902) | | Originally Posted by isshinwhat Tradition is the word of God. Whether it was passed down orally or through letter, like the Scriptures, it is equally inerrant.
Is anything passed down "orally" through the church or is everything that is orally taught based on something that is written? No one needed to "come up with" the Dogma of the sinlessness of Mary anymore than they "came up with" the Resurrection of Jesus.
Neal, I didn't mean "come up with" as if to imply fabrication. I'm just asking how something, like the sinlessness of Mary, can be considered the Word of God if it's taught no where in Scripture. Maybe you could help me understand that. It was a historical fact, taught by the Apostles and those who learned from them.
Mary's sinlessness was an historical fact? Who, aside from God, would know whether someone was sinless?
Don
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"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
3rd July 2003, 07:48 PM
| | Legend
 
| | Join Date: 25th June 2003
Posts: 28,643
Blessings: 126,816
Reps: 36,708 (power: 74) | | Originally Posted by Reformationist Christ, who else? Are you asking if there is a created being that God has put over all of His church? If so, there is not one.
God bless
Well what was all that stuff going on with Peter about in Matthew? You are ROCK, he changed his name to rock and said he would build his Church on him.
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For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?
And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? --Matthew 5
If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?
And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother. --1 John 4 |
3rd July 2003, 07:50 PM
| | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
40
| | Join Date: 7th March 2002
Posts: 15,051
Blessings: 56,163
Reps: 408,703,705,619,875,392 (power: 408,703,705,619,902) | | Originally Posted by Shelb5 Well what was all that stuff going on with Peter about in Matthew? You are ROCK, he changed his name to rock and said he would build his Church on him.
That's a bit unfair, don't you think? You know that I don't agree with your church's interpretation of those passages and yet you ask a question in a "non-debate forum" based on the strawman that I do acknowledge the Catholic position as the Truth.
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"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
3rd July 2003, 07:50 PM
| | Legend
| | Join Date: 25th June 2003
Posts: 28,643
Blessings: 126,816
Reps: 36,708 (power: 74) | | Originally Posted by Reformationist Who said my prayers helped them?
Why else would you pray for them? My prayers aren't the catalyst or the means for anything God does with maybe the exception of helping to accomplish my own sanctification so I don't see the parallel you're drawing here. 
If you have a sick freind do you pray that he may be healed?
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For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?
And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? --Matthew 5
If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?
And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother. --1 John 4 |
3rd July 2003, 07:53 PM
| | Legend
| | Join Date: 25th June 2003
Posts: 28,643
Blessings: 126,816
Reps: 36,708 (power: 74) | | Originally Posted by Reformationist That's a bit unfair, don't you think?
No. You know that I don't agree with your church's interpretation of those passages and yet you ask a question in a "non-debate forum" based on the strawman that I do acknowledge the Catholic position as the Truth.
Strawman??? I am asking you if Christ did not appoint Peter as the head of his Church on earth, then what was the "you are rock" stuff all about?
I do not think it is against the forum rules for you to answer. You sure your not in a bad mood?
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For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?
And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? --Matthew 5
If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?
And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother. --1 John 4 |
3rd July 2003, 07:58 PM
| | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
40
| | Join Date: 7th March 2002
Posts: 15,051
Blessings: 56,163
Reps: 408,703,705,619,875,392 (power: 408,703,705,619,902) | | Originally Posted by Shelb5 Why else would you pray for them?
Because I am a Christian. If you have a sick freind do you pray that he may be healed?
Absolutely. If you have a sick friend and you pray that they are healed and then they are healed do you believe it was because you prayed for it? What happens if they don't get healed but yet you still prayed?
__________________
"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
3rd July 2003, 08:02 PM
| | Legend
| | Join Date: 25th June 2003
Posts: 28,643
Blessings: 126,816
Reps: 36,708 (power: 74) | | Originally Posted by Reformationist Because I am a Christian.
Lord...it's like pulling teeth, what kind of Christian prayers to you pray for them? Absolutely. If you have a sick friend and you pray that they are healed and then they are healed do you believe it was because you prayed for it? What happens if they don't get healed but yet you still prayed?
Woe...then I ask again why did you even bother to pray, could you give me a precise answer and not because you are a Chrsitan?
__________________
For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?
And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this? --Matthew 5
If any man say, I love God, and hateth his brother; he is a liar. For he that loveth not his brother, whom he seeth, how can he love God, whom he seeth not?
And this commandment we have from God, that he, who loveth God, love also his brother. --1 John 4 |
3rd July 2003, 08:02 PM
| | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
40
| | Join Date: 7th March 2002
Posts: 15,051
Blessings: 56,163
Reps: 408,703,705,619,875,392 (power: 408,703,705,619,902) | | Originally Posted by Shelb5 No.
Of course not. :rolleyes: Strawman??? I am asking you if Christ did not appoint Peter as the head of his Church on earth
No, He didn't. , then what was the "you are rock" stuff all about?
LOL! Again, that is not what those passages mean in my opinion. To address this on those grounds in a forum where you, yourself, have repeatedly reminded me is not a place where debate of Catholic belief is allowed is stumbling to say the least. You sure your not in a bad mood?
Again, nope. Not in the least. I am, however, going to split because it's 5 o'clock on the 3rd of July and I'm the last person still at work at my site so I'll see you next week. Be blessed and stay safe.
God bless,
Don
__________________
"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus | | |
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