| Origins Theology Forum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums. |
 | | 
28th June 2003, 07:37 PM
|  | Saved by the Grace of God
44    
| | Join Date: 28th June 2003
Posts: 952
Blessings: 86,306
Reps: 313 (power: 0) | | | Pascal's Wager-- for theistic evolutionists
Let's say God created the world through evolution. Both YECs and theistic evolutionists are safe in this situation. The theistic evolutionist is safe because he/she was correct, while the YEC is safe because he/she trusted the word of God. 
Let's say that God created the world as detailed in the Bible. A believer who accepted the Biblical explaination of the origins of the world has nothing to fear in this circumstance, because he/she trusted the word of God. A theistic evolutionist who did not believe the Bible may be in trouble here. God may not allow someone who did not believe in the Bible into the Kingdom of heaven.
This can be shown as follows:
1. God created the world as outlined in Genesis and Person X believed it: all is fine.
2. God created the world through evolution and Person X believed the word of God, Person X is still ok because he/she trusted God over man.
3. God created the world through evolution, and Person X was a theistic evolutionist, Person X is still ok for being correct.
4. God created the world as outlined in Genesis and Person X believed in evolution: Person X may be in serious trouble here for trusting man's word over God's word.
So theistic evolutionists, why are you taking a chance? Why do you trust men over God? Why not just trust God's word, and be safe either way? |
28th June 2003, 08:09 PM
|  | Be wise and be smart
26  
 | | Join Date: 16th December 2002 Location: University of Rhode Island
Posts: 1,539
Blessings: 265,876
Reps: 3,202,689,982,729,637 (power: 3,202,689,982,740) | | Originally Posted by Northern Christian Let's say God created the world through evolution. Both YECs and theistic evolutionists are safe in this situation. The theistic evolutionist is safe because he/she was correct, while the YEC is safe because he/she trusted the word of God.
Let's say that God created the world as detailed in the Bible. A believer who accepted the Biblical explaination of the origins of the world has nothing to fear in this circumstance, because he/she trusted the word of God. A theistic evolutionist who did not believe the Bible may be in trouble here. God may not allow someone who did not believe in the Bible into the Kingdom of heaven.
This can be shown as follows:
1. God created the world as outlined in Genesis and Person X believed it: all is fine.
2. God created the world through evolution and Person X believed the word of God, Person X is still ok because he/she trusted God over man.
3. God created the world through evolution, and Person X was a theistic evolutionist, Person X is still ok for being correct.
4. God created the world as outlined in Genesis and Person X believed in evolution: Person X may be in serious trouble here for trusting man's word over God's word.
So theistic evolutionists, why are you taking a chance? Why do you trust men over God? Why not just trust God's word, and be safe either way?
Firstly, I find the very idea of Pascal's Wager to be rediculous. IMO, no mentally fit person could "make" themselves believe something out of fear of potential consequences. They could fake it, but it wouldn't be a true belief.
Secondly, even if a person is capable of "making" themselves believe something after being confronted with Pascal's Wager, I would personally consider it a hollow belief. How can God appreciate someone's belief if the only reason they hold it is out of fear of future consequences?
Thirdly, no where in the Bible does it say that acceptance of 6-day creation is necessary for salvation. I hate to think that God would surprise people with secret things they were supposed to believe in if they wanted to recieve eternal salvation.
Fourthly, how do you know God won't punish YECs for not accepting evolution? 
__________________ "Creationists are going to distort whatever arguments come up.... Archaeopteryx is half reptile and half bird any way you cut the deck, and so it is a Rosetta stone for evolution, whether it is related to dinosaurs or not. These creationists are confusing an argument about minor details of evolution with the indisputable fact of evolution." -Dr. Alan Feduccia, in an interview with Discover magazine |
28th June 2003, 08:17 PM
| | Saved by the Grace of God
44
| | Join Date: 28th June 2003
Posts: 952
Blessings: 86,306
Reps: 313 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by troodon Thirdly, no where in the Bible does it say that acceptance of 6-day creation is necessary for salvation. I hate to think that God would surprise people with secret things they were supposed to believe in if they wanted to recieve eternal salvation.
Since when is it a suprise that one needs to believe in the word of God to be saved? Fourthly, how do you know God won't punish YECs for not accepting evolution?
What would make you think that God would punish someone for not trusting His Word? |
28th June 2003, 08:34 PM
| | Be wise and be smart
26
| | Join Date: 16th December 2002 Location: University of Rhode Island
Posts: 1,539
Blessings: 265,876
Reps: 3,202,689,982,729,637 (power: 3,202,689,982,740) | | Originally Posted by Northern Christian Since when is it a suprise that one needs to believe in the word of God to be saved?  Uh-oh. Should I make myself believe that the mustard seed is the smallest seed as well? God might quiz me on that during my judgement. Heck, He might even demand I believe polygamy and slavery to be ok as well. It's in scripture so I'd better believe it too, just to be on the safe side. :rolleyes:
Do you really think God is that shallow? What would make you think that God would punish someone for not trusting His Word?
What would make you think that God would punish someone for not trusting His Creation?
__________________ "Creationists are going to distort whatever arguments come up.... Archaeopteryx is half reptile and half bird any way you cut the deck, and so it is a Rosetta stone for evolution, whether it is related to dinosaurs or not. These creationists are confusing an argument about minor details of evolution with the indisputable fact of evolution." -Dr. Alan Feduccia, in an interview with Discover magazine |
28th June 2003, 09:07 PM
|  | Jedi Master
26  
| | Join Date: 5th June 2002 Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,689
Blessings: 85,562 My Mood 
Reps: 62,343 (power: 74) | | Originally Posted by Northern Christian Since when is it a suprise that one needs to believe in the word of God to be saved?
We do believe the word of God, we just don't interpet it as being literal due to the evidence found in Creation.
Do you believe the earth is flat and covered with a dome with stars stuck around it? That's how the Bible describes the earth. Do you also believe there are storehouses for rain and snow above the "firmanent" (dome)? That's what the Bible says too. Do you also believe in fire-breathing sea serpents? Ask Job, he did.
Evolution isn't really the "word of man", it's what man can see in Creation - that all life evolved from a common ancestor. Why would God plant all this evidence if evolution is not true? What would make you think that God would punish someone for not trusting His Word?
God's Creation is His second book, so why do you not believe Creation? What if God decided to punish you for ignoring what he "wrote" in Creation? (Creation would be more reliable that the bible since it wasn't put there by man, nor has it been tampered with by man to distort the message).
__________________
"Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
|
28th June 2003, 09:30 PM
|  | Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity
39  
| | Join Date: 23rd June 2003 Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 5,868
Blessings: 126,984
Reps: 20,477 (power: 34) | | Originally Posted by Northern Christian 4. God created the world as outlined in Genesis and Person X believed in evolution: Person X may be in serious trouble here for trusting man's word over God's word.
So theistic evolutionists, why are you taking a chance? Why do you trust men over God? Why not just trust God's word, and be safe either way?
Of all the times Christ was asked "What must I do to be saved?" never once did He answer, "Read the creation story in a literal manner."
St Paul told us that all of creation testifies to God. Look at the evidence we see in creation. It testifies to a allegorical interpretation of Genesis. It is not that we don't trust God's word. It is that we have a different understanding of that word.
__________________
Christ is risen from the dead! Trampling down death by death! And on those in the tombs bestowing life!
|
28th June 2003, 10:10 PM
|  | Gangster of Four
64 
| | Join Date: 3rd April 2003
Posts: 410
Blessings: 65,515
Reps: 7,487,994,377,694,246 (power: 7,487,994,377,703) | | | Some of the creationist leaders, alarmed at the defections of their followers, are now preaching that God will send evolutionists to Hell.
Like creationism, that is neither Biblical nor Christian belief. It's one more step in the slow process of creationism breaking away to become a separate religion. |
28th June 2003, 10:54 PM
| | Orthodoxy: Old School, Hard Core Christianity
39
| | Join Date: 23rd June 2003 Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 5,868
Blessings: 126,984
Reps: 20,477 (power: 34) | | Originally Posted by The Barbarian It's one more step in the slow process of creationism breaking away to become a separate religion.
An interesting thought. How far do you think it will go?
__________________
Christ is risen from the dead! Trampling down death by death! And on those in the tombs bestowing life!
|
1st July 2003, 05:16 PM
| | Member
| | Join Date: 28th June 2003
Posts: 78
Blessings: 91,300
Reps: 23 (power: 0) | | | The theory of evolution is seen as the greatist clash between god and science, evolution is born out of the scientific studies, however this does not mean that the evolution of the species is totally by chance, i believe that god is guiding this process.
I do not believe that God would be vengeful and send all evolutionists to hell by not believing the exact wording in the bible...
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
1st July 2003, 07:38 PM
| | Jedi Master
26
| | Join Date: 5th June 2002 Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 2,689
Blessings: 85,562 My Mood
Reps: 62,343 (power: 74) | | Originally Posted by short stick The theory of evolution is seen as the greatist clash between god and science, evolution is born out of the scientific studies, however this does not mean that the evolution of the species is totally by chance, i believe that god is guiding this process.
I do not believe that God would be vengeful and send all evolutionists to hell by not believing the exact wording in the bible...
Evolution isn't chance anyway, it works by Natural Selection.
__________________
"Ach, stick it up yer trakkans!"
| | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
