| One Bread, One Body - Catholic A forum open to Christians to discuss various Catholic beliefs and issues. |  | | 
10th December 2006, 06:13 PM
|  | Save a cow - eat a vegetarian! 38 
| | Join Date: 22nd August 2004 Location: Sydney
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Reps: 5,514 (power: 17) | | St Peter's Basillica - Built with blood money? How was the Basilica funded?
Did the Pope Leo X approve the controversial practice of selling indulgences?
Was all (or most) of the funding from the selling of indulgences to build the Basilica? If so, does this raise an ethical problem since the CC condemned the practice of selling indulgences? Does this mean the Basilica was built with money obtained through sin and deception?
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10th December 2006, 06:39 PM
|  | Legend 52  | | Join Date: 22nd July 2003 Location: Michigan
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Reps: 173,025,488 (power: 173,047) | | No. The Pope never approved of selling indulgences. Nor has the Catholic Church ever advocated or approved of the "selling" of indulgences. That's basically anti-Catholic propaganda.
At one time indulgences could be gained by various means, among them acts of charity. ONE of the ways in which an indulgence could be gained was to make, as an act of charity, a monetary donation (in lieu of, say, some other form of alms giving). Now, this did indeed digress, through abuse, into what ended up amounting to what could be said to be "selling" of them (due to some perhaps well-meaning but possibly unscrupulous clergy).
But it was never the practice of "the Catholic Church" (or any Pope) to "sell" indulgences. As I said, that's basically anti-Catholic propaganda.
Moreover, when the practice (of accepting monetary donations) was so abused as to give the impression of "selling" them, (for the reason mentioned above), it was discontinued (the practice of accepting monetary donations as an act of charity in place of other acts, though not indulgences themsleves) by the Church. So . . . "selling" indulgences was never approved of by either the Church or the Popes. Next question.
__________________ "The omnipotence of the infinitely merciful God is checkmated by unyielding obstinacy." -- Rene Latourelle, S.J. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18)
Last edited by Skripper; 10th December 2006 at 06:51 PM.
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10th December 2006, 07:20 PM
|  | Save a cow - eat a vegetarian! 38 
| | Join Date: 22nd August 2004 Location: Sydney
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Reps: 5,514 (power: 17) | | | So, did Luther make it up when he said there were abuses?
And if there were abuses did any of this money find its way to bulding the Basilica?
And where did the rest of the money come from to build the Basilica?
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10th December 2006, 07:30 PM
| | Veni Sancte Spiritus 25 
| | Join Date: 14th November 2003 Location: Boston
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Reps: 52,561,757,736,460,896 (power: 52,561,757,736,476) | | Originally Posted by TheListener So, did Luther make it up when he said there were abuses?
And if there were abuses did any of this money find its way to bulding the Basilica?
And where did the rest of the money come from to build the Basilica?
No, Luther was correct to say there were abuses. He went the wrong way in how he tried to change the abuses.
If there were abuses and the money made its way to the building of the Basilica, it is still the Church's money given to them.
The rest of the money came from regular donations, etc.
The Catholic Church doesn't have very many options when it comes to making money. We run mostly on the charity of the members of the Body.
__________________ In Christ, through Mary,
FullyMT "When fierce temptations threat thy soul with loss Think on his passion and the bitter pain, Think on the mortal anguish of the cross, Think on Christ's blood let out at every vein, Think of his precious heart all rent in twain; For thy redemption think all this was wrought, Nor be that lost which he so dearly bought." -St. Thomas Moore
"Trust in the LORD with all your heart, on your own intelligence rely not; In all your ways be mindful of him, and he will make straight your paths." Proverbs 3: 5-6 "Will you offer sacrifices to God and accept all the sufferings that He will send you in reparation for the sins that have offended Him and as supplication for the conversion of sinners?"-Our Blessed Mother at Fatima, Portugal, May 13, 1917 Contemplative in action. | 
10th December 2006, 07:41 PM
|  | Legend 52  | | Join Date: 22nd July 2003 Location: Michigan
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Reps: 173,025,488 (power: 173,047) | | Originally Posted by TheListener So, did Luther make it up when he said there were abuses?
Nope. He just went about it the wrong way. And if there were abuses did any of this money find its way to bulding the Basilica?
There were, definitely, abuses. But what do you suppose should have been done? Were they to separate which bricks came from each source? How would that be done, exactly? And where did the rest of the money come from to build the Basilica?
Other sources?
__________________ "The omnipotence of the infinitely merciful God is checkmated by unyielding obstinacy." -- Rene Latourelle, S.J. And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. (Matthew 16:18) | 
10th December 2006, 10:29 PM
| | Senior Member 26  | | Join Date: 11th August 2006 Location: Deep in the heart of Texas
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Reps: 750 (power: 0) | | | I'm a little confused... where does the "blood money" come into the picture? | 
10th December 2006, 10:55 PM
|  | Save a cow - eat a vegetarian! 38 
| | Join Date: 22nd August 2004 Location: Sydney
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Reps: 5,514 (power: 17) | | I used a shocking topic to get some attention and hopefully more responses. Sorry
It isn't "Blood Money", just money acquired through sin and deception. IF it were the case as outlined above.
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11th December 2006, 12:09 AM
| | Veteran 29  | | Join Date: 4th October 2003
Posts: 1,621
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Reps: 1,389 (power: 12) | | Originally Posted by TheListener I used a shocking topic to get some attention and hopefully more responses. Sorry
It isn't "Blood Money", just money acquired through sin and deception. IF it were the case as outlined above.
Children born out of wedlock are also acquired through sin (and sometimes even deception). That doesn't mean the children are invalid in God's eyes.
Sin is an action, not a substance. | 
11th December 2006, 12:45 AM
|  | Ab omni malo, libera nos, Domine!

| | Join Date: 23rd September 2003 Location: New Jersey
Posts: 19,055
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Reps: 37,540 (power: 66) | | Originally Posted by TheListener
It isn't "Blood Money", just money acquired through sin and deception. IF it were the case as outlined above.
"Blood money" means that someone was killed in the process, usually.
Yes, there were abuses, Luther had a valid complaint. However, think... if you are the pope, and you are trying to guide the Church, the Church has its rules (i.e. indulgences cannot be sold)... how do you prevent a small group of greedy opportunists from NOT selling them? Basically, where there is a "market," someone will try to exploit it. The Church will do what it can to crack down on various abuses... sometimes it does it successfully, sometimes it does a bad job,,, but the point remains that the illegal actions of some renegade clergy do not become "the teaching of the Church." just because some people get away with things like this.
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11th December 2006, 01:18 PM
| | | | [Mod Hat Post] Closing Temporarily For Clean up. This thread has now been cleaned up, I would like to remind folks to please remember the [rule1.4] AND please keep to the OP topic. Thread Reopened, thanks for your patience.. Peace Les
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The difference between 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. ~~~"~~~ 'Faith is not a once-done act, but a continuous gaze of the heart at the Triune God. Believing, then, is directing the hearts' attention to Jesus. It is lifting the mind to "behold the Lamb of God," and never ceasing that beholding for the rest of our lives.'
Last edited by poppinskw; 11th December 2006 at 01:31 PM.
Reason: Reopening thread.
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