Messianic Judaism and Ethiopian Orthodoxy

zhilan,

I have to agree with Visionary, 'Once bitten; twice shy'.
But that doesn't excuse harsh words.. I apologise if any of us came off harsh!

Everyone is welcome in our corner of the forums, absolutely with open arms welcome.

There are of course theological differences, but people are welcome.

Main arguments against the Catholic faith, be it Russian Orthodoxy, Eastern Orthodoxy, Roman Orthodoxy or "catholicism" in general are the same main reasons that protestantism began, as well as other underlying issues such as the horrors that were extended at the hands of the differing Catholic groups throughout history.

Some of our families got it two fold - you become a believer and then have to chose "Catholic" or "Lutheran" or if the choice availed itself - one of the Anabaptist groups... and in times past, one was not only hassled or killed for being Jewish, but having different flavor to your faith, or different liturgy...


Messianics on a whole are generally (though not always) trying to move past the protestant movement and begin again where christianity split from Nazarean beliefs back around the death of the disciples and the apostle Sha'ul.

Liturgy is great, if it agrees with scripture.


Like Wags said, many believers who go to church obey Torah to varying degrees.

But if we step back and go "am I following the commands as I should" Most of us (self included) often find reasons of logic why these things don't have to be done, when they are things that are to be done in the diaspora; which is different from things that can only be done in The Land.

When we do that, we are really slipping up. I find myself doing it and I have to really stop and give pause to find out why I didn't do what I knew I should, and correct it.


To answer your question: The main contentions are generally with the modus operandi; not the people involved.

But, this does not give an excuse to behave rashly or speak ill words about what goes on.

I think it would be great if we can talk about what kinds of things are done within your group and what we do - and we can surely have a lively (yet peaceable) discussion about the differences in our practices and liturgy without bending or breaking any of the forum rules.

I'm sure most of us would be interested!

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Ethiopians used to believe and keep the Shabbat - but other influences have removed them from Shabbat and they keep Sunday. Usually only the men attend church. So the women resort to the local witch doctor for their religious practice.

Even the catholic church uses practices that are jewish in origion - afterall all of christianity has its roots in judaism whether they want to admit it or not. But they have taken these practices and turned them to their own uses - and they are barely recognnizable for what they once were.

As others have said - if a certain belief/action - is an inherrant part of a denominations belief system, and if that belief is contrary to torah then it would be very hard to stay with in that denomination if you are wanting to follow Torah.

I think what distinguishs Torah observant messianics from christians who keep bits of Torah accidently is intent. Torah observant messainics intend to observe Torah, they embrace it and like King David find it to be sweeter than honey.

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I got my IDF hat on so y'all better listen up.

This thread was split off from another so zhilan could explore a question she has, that of what does EO have in common with MJ, not our differences, that is obvious, and has been flambed to death in many a thread on CF. This is not the place to do that. This is a place to find what we have in common and built on that.

When you just meet someone for the first time and want to get to know them, do you say, 'Hey, I like your car, I always wanted one of those' or would you say, 'That's a cool car, but you choose the wrong color'.

It is natural to discuss similarities when people first meet, then when they get to know each other the differences can be talked about with a basic foundation of who they are already. Let's abide by that here. Let's get to know what we have in common, and fellowship with that, because anything else IS debate, wither you mean it or not. Just like they ( other icons) can ask us questions , the same goes for us. OK? This is not a place to post any formal beliefs of the church.

Let's play nice, to learn and grow, because this is the only warning I am giving in this thread, if it doesn't continue in this vein of fellowship then it will be closed permenatly, and probably not without some parting gifts of warnings given out.

Wanted to say that I think the thread you've made here is rather brilliant. From what I've been able to observe over the years, there've been MANY Messianic Jews who've found the world of Orthodoxy to be one of the best expressions for what they feel the Jewish culture was centered around. When it comes to Eastern Orthodoxy or Oriental Orthodxy (i.e. Coptic, Ethopian, Syrian, Indian, etc),I've met/dialouged with PLENTY who are some of the most loving, caring and informed people I've ever witnessed...and I've learned much from them over the years. The Eastern Mindset toward spirituality is something that is often missed in the Western world---and much of it is often directly in line with how early Jewish culture would've operated. As is it, there are many coming from a Hasidic Jewish background that end up going into the liturgical circles of Orthodoxy (as well as Catholisicm) because of the fact that they feel it seems more similar to how the early church would've operated. On where more was shared on the issue, one can go here to #33.

There was actually a book I was able to read on the subject that was very beautiful in content. It was recommended to me by the rabbi of the Messianic Jewish fellowship I attend (in light of how he was an Eastern Orthodox monk for a good bit)---and the name of the book is entitled "Orthodox Worship: A Living Continuity With the Temple, the Synagogue and the Early Church" ( ).




The issue of Ethiopian Orthodoxy and Messianic Judaism seems to come together for me whenever I consider what occurs in the West Indies...especially as it concerns things in regards to the Regaee/Rastafarian culture. Much of the ideology---especially as it concerns those who were West Indian Jews and felt a strong connection to Judaism---based their concepts of the Messiah in what the Ethopian Orthodox church was about. More of this was discussed elsewhere in another thread I made when it came to a mission trip I took to Jamaica...entitled Reggae Righteousness: Seeing Ones that are both Messianic Jewish & Rastas for Christ?


As I'll be going back to Jamaica this Saturday for another mission trip, the issue of Ethopian Orthodoxy and its connections to Judaism in the West Indies is sure to come up again. Its truly amazing to see how Ethopian Orthodoxy and Messianic Judaism overlap on many issues...especially as it concerns the issue of foods/diet. Thankfully, if I run across any Messianic Jews looking into Orthodoxy, I can always refer them to the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.....for those interested in trying to be Biblical with food laws would probably feel most comfortable with them. For more on that, one can can try to look in the Fetha Nagast, an Ethiopian collection of secular and ecclesiastical laws. The former used to be observed in the Ethiopian Empire (until Emperor Haile Selassie who issued a new law, based, however, on the FN). The latter are still observed in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church...and the book can be ordered from Amazon.com . Large portions of it can be downloaded from EthiopianOrthodox.org (part 1) and part 2.

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"Our ignorance of history causes us to slander our own times." ( Gustave Flaubert )

Proverbs 18:15
"The heart of the discerning acquires knowledge; the ears of the wise seek it out."

Proverbs 24:3-6
5 A wise man has great power,
and a man of knowledge increases strength;

6 for waging war you need guidance,

and in the multitude of council there is safety.