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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #41  
Old 9th July 2003, 07:15 AM
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YOU arn't scared of such an event because YOU don't believe in God.
Not believing in an evil/incompetent diety who destroyed nearly all life on earth with a worldwide flood in a fit of pique because he botched his creation and it didn't turn out the way he thought it should and ordered the massacres of countless people by his "chosen people" after the flood and not believing in God are two different things.

Good point--- but it is true that hundreds of sacred douments and texts from many religions mention a gigantic flood somewhere. If the people at that time were scattered over the planet- how did they all manage to write about a similar flood?
Because civilizations developed around rivers and oceans and great floods occasionally occur in such areas. The ancient Egyptians set their calendars by flooding of the Nile for example. There are also widespread myths about people that turn into animals in many cultures. I hope you stay off the moors when the moon is full.

What you will see if you read this thread and so many others that give clear falsifications of the worldwide flood myth is that YECs have no answer to the many falsifications of the flood and can only start quoting scripture when they are brought up. If the worldwide flood were not a myth there should be answers to the falsifications from paleontology, geology, biodiversity, biogeography and those other facts of science that falsify the myth of a worldwide flood. There are none because the worldwide flood recorded in Genesis is a myth. It may well have been based on some large local flood but it was not worldwide.

If you disagree, how about some answers to the facts on the fossil record presented in this thread?

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  #42  
Old 9th July 2003, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Revelation 22:21
God was at a point where he couldn't go back- Satan had gotten a grasp on the world- and God wasn't going to let generations of man to be misled-the world couldn't be saved without taking some extreme action.
he couldn't go back? would this be the omnipotent creator of the universe that we are talking about?
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  #43  
Old 10th July 2003, 03:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch
Not believing in an evil/incompetent diety who destroyed nearly all life on earth with a worldwide flood in a fit of pique because he botched his creation and it didn't turn out the way he thought it should and ordered the massacres of countless people by his "chosen people" after the flood and not believing in God are two different things.
Whoa-- his creation went wrong? You certainly have that correct- the "creation" went wrong. And it was "his". But it wasn't his fault-- satan had corrupted the world- the people had to reject satan- which they did not- and they embraced sin- and had turned away from god.

Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch
Because civilizations developed around rivers and oceans and great floods occasionally occur in such areas. The ancient Egyptians set their calendars by flooding of the Nile for example. There are also widespread myths about people that turn into animals in many cultures. I hope you stay off the moors when the moon is full.

What you will see if you read this thread and so many others that give clear falsifications of the worldwide flood myth is that YECs have no answer to the many falsifications of the flood and can only start quoting scripture when they are brought up. If the worldwide flood were not a myth there should be answers to the falsifications from paleontology, geology, biodiversity, biogeography and those other facts of science that falsify the myth of a worldwide flood. There are none because the worldwide flood recorded in Genesis is a myth. It may well have been based on some large local flood but it was not worldwide.

If you disagree, how about some answers to the facts on the fossil record presented in this thread?

The Frumious Bandersnatch
I've herd of caves and things like that containg fossils of all types of animals- which had died at about the same time. It is believed that they were stacked by a massive flood.-
Hundreds of different cultures have stories of a massive flood. Am I to assume that every culture and different group of people (which were all over the world) had a local flood around them that they could write about?
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  #44  
Old 10th July 2003, 03:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Jet Black
he couldn't go back? would this be the omnipotent creator of the universe that we are talking about?
Yea, God should have warped back in time to re-do everything. I wonder why he didn't-- I'll have to ask him that one.
It was God's work-- but it was Satan at work.
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  #45  
Old 10th July 2003, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Revelation 22:21
I've herd of caves and things like that containg fossils of all types of animals- which had died at about the same time. It is believed that they were stacked by a massive flood.-
Hundreds of different cultures have stories of a massive flood. Am I to assume that every culture and different group of people (which were all over the world) had a local flood around them that they could write about?
stacked..... very very neatly stacked with not a single bone, tooth or plant out of place, pretty good job for a flood that simultaneously destroyed entire civilisations, carved out mountains, but didn't disturb nests full of eggs.
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  #46  
Old 10th July 2003, 03:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Revelation 22:21
Whoa-- his creation went wrong? You certainly have that correct- the "creation" went wrong. And it was "his". But it wasn't his fault-- satan had corrupted the world.
It wasn't his fault eh? So where did satan come from?
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  #47  
Old 10th July 2003, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Revelation 22:21
I've herd of caves and things like that containg fossils of all types of animals
Considering such a cave would destroy the entire point of this thread I would love to see some sources for this. Without them I must admit that I doubt the existance of such caves.
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-Dr. Alan Feduccia, in an interview with Discover magazine
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  #48  
Old 10th July 2003, 06:33 AM
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Whoa-- his creation went wrong? You certainly have that correct- the "creation" went wrong. And it was "his". But it wasn't his fault-- satan had corrupted the world- the people had to reject satan- which they did not- and they embraced sin- and had turned away from god.
Ah the old Satan excuse again. Everyone corrupted by Satan and God too imcompetent to prevent it so he had to destroy the world with a flood killing off women, childern, unborn babies and most of the animal life. Have you ever thought this through? It is total nonsense just like the rest of YEC.

I've herd of caves and things like that containg fossils of all types of animals- which had died at about the same time. It is believed that they were stacked by a massive flood.-
Evidence please.

Hundreds of different cultures have stories of a massive flood. Am I to assume that every culture and different group of people (which were all over the world) had a local flood around them that they could write about?
There have undoubtably been thousands and thousands of great local floods in the history of man. There are river valleys that flood virtually every year, Hurricanes and Typhoons can cause massive floods and coastal areas suffer tsunamis after earthquakes and tales grow in the telling. Primative people tend to consider their world the whole world but many of the stories are about large local floods. Most of these myths are very different than the Noah flood. Are we to believe that people who are all descended from the same family that survived a worldwide flood caused by a vindictive God somehow developed hundreds of different myths and religious traditions within a short time afterwards? There are also widespread folk myths about walking dead and people turning into animals. This does not mean that Dracula versus the Wolfman was based on real events.

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  #49  
Old 12th July 2003, 03:18 AM
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Sorry for the late reply- I was really looking for that article about the cave thing--- I saw it about 2 years ago and I remember it being on some small website. I can't seem to find it-- but i'll keep looking- and if I find it i'll post ASAP.


Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch
Ah the old Satan excuse again. Everyone corrupted by Satan and God too imcompetent to prevent it so he had to destroy the world with a flood killing off women, childern, unborn babies and most of the animal life. Have you ever thought this through? It is total nonsense just like the rest of YEC.
Ah the old "Satan excuse" excuse.
There is a thin and obvious line between what is good and what is bad- from honesty and truthfulness- to lying and rape- murder- genocide. Heres my point-- what is honesty and truthfulness without the rape murder and genocide? We can only know how good something is by its evil counter part- and how evil something is by its good counterpart. What is life without death--- life would be meaningless without death- it would be worthless if it never ended. What is heaven without hell to back it up-- it makes it worth something. Heaven is the "good" place- and hell is the "bad" place-- they balance eachother out. Why did God wipe out all the little cutie women and children- who were so innocent-- sitting in their cribs making you want to eat them (not literally- and i'm talking about the babies and children- not the women lol)- they didn't know anything- why kill them?
The children would all have been corrupted- changed into grown liars- and murderers- sinners. Even Hitler was once a baby- sitting on his mommy's lap- in a rocker- with a bottle in his mouth- and a little bib with a tug boat on it around his neck- cuddling a teddy bear in his arms. I didn't see him wearing that bib while he commanded the german army to attack poland and capture the Jews. What if all the people during Noahs time had been corrupted- not one good man alive- all worshipping idols and indulgeing in sin? What would heaven be? What would be good and what would be bad? There would be one side- and everything would be bad--- there would be no balance- and things that were bad would become the norm-- getting worse and worse- God had to wipe the people out to preserve the balance between good and evil--- because when good went- how would they know what was evil. That is why I am here-- as a representive from the other side of the thin line. You can be on either side- it's your choice. Knowledge of good and evil--acquired by adam and eve- given to us----- its a balance. Its not the knowledge of just evil- or just good- its both- because without one another- both would be meaningless.


Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch
Evidence please.
Ugggg- like I said- I tried to find it-- and when I do- it goes up ASAP- (and no I am not lying- thats too cheap- AIG does that) but I did find some other stuff-- about how fish scales have fossilized in certain areas-- and they do not usually fossilize--- which gives evidence to a great flood. I can't find good stuff on the flood-- because I can falsify most of it myself. I can't deny the flood-- it tells me so much about today.--I just believe that it happened somewhere- and at sometime.- Nuf said.


Originally Posted by Frumious Bandersnatch
There have undoubtably been thousands and thousands of great local floods in the history of man. There are river valleys that flood virtually every year, Hurricanes and Typhoons can cause massive floods and coastal areas suffer tsunamis after earthquakes and tales grow in the telling. Primative people tend to consider their world the whole world but many of the stories are about large local floods. Most of these myths are very different than the Noah flood. Are we to believe that people who are all descended from the same family that survived a worldwide flood caused by a vindictive God somehow developed hundreds of different myths and religious traditions within a short time afterwards? There are also widespread folk myths about walking dead and people turning into animals. This does not mean that Dracula versus the Wolfman was based on real events.

The Frumious Bandersnatch
It is obvious that some of the stories were very similar-- some even mentioned animals boarding a ship like in Noah's story. I know it seems strange that one event could turn into hundreds of stories.
I am reminded of the story of Paul Bunion (forgive spelling)-- the mysterious gigancic lumberjack. Within a few generations of american lumberjack folk tales-- a simple made up mystical lumberjack- grew from normal sized to beyond gigantic-- and from working alone to having a blue steer (or horse- whatever- not sure)- who also became gigantic. He dosn't even exist today-- the story was changed dramatically within a few generations. The bible is many 1000's of years old- and it hasn't changed much- (YES I KNOW SOMETHINGS MIGHT HAVE CHANGED). A divine spririt could have watched over moses and his family- and made sure it reproduced. If the death rate was low- and the families had like 20 children-- it could happen. Think of the mathmatical trick-- multiply 2 a hundred times-- 2x2= 4- 4x4= 8- 8x8= 16- etc- pretty soon your in the thousands-- millions. The biblical account was written down-- and the same story was probably passed down orally- which changed and evolved-- just as Paul Bunions story did.


AGAIN-- SORRY FOR THE DELAY
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Old 12th July 2003, 03:36 AM
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I've said this before but...... I find i have to repeat things around here.

Time is a value like space, it is not absolute. If one twin left earth and flew near the speed of light to another solor system. When he came back 5 of his years later, his twin could have aged something like 30 years. If they both caried a watch and set them exactly to each other, then when they came back there watches would disagree. We know this because Einstiens theory of realtivity predects it and it was proven with atomic clocks flown in space compaired to atomic clocks left on earth.
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