Dr. Dino

Chi_Cygni · #71 10th November 2003, 07:14 PM

First point:

Hovind is a con. He is certainly no scientist. His lack of basic science knowledge is amazing, and that people don't see through this is equally shocking.

Buck72 - I'm sorry but it seems your science knowledge is lacking.

Ever heard of multipole components to a field? The Earth's dipole field is decreasing currently, but it was also at lower levels in the past, then it increased and is now decreasing again.

The problem is the Earth's field is not a simple dipole, as shown in most layman's books. As one component of the field decreases another can be increasing. The Earth's field is a complex poloidal and toroidal geometry. Thus it has associated quadrupole and higher order multipoles. You cannot just cite the change in the dipole component and argue the whole field is decaying. This whole argument was put to rest years ago, except by dyed in the wool fools like Hovind.

Check your lunar orbit sources more carefully too. There are several journal papers on the change in the lunar recession as a function of the Earth's continent position with time and how it effects the tidal drag of the Earth and Moon. Even plugging in the current recession rate doesn't lead to an impossibly close Moon in the past.

Vance · #72 10th November 2003, 07:20 PM

Originally Posted by creationist-Heritage

Okay where should I start. For one, Evolution is a religion and if you believe it you are not a christian.

This is what I am talking about, folks. Just in case anyone had any doubts that YEC's actually say this, here it is in black and white. It is exactly this statement which has, I am convinced, cost Christianity more souls than a teaching of evolution EVER has.

Vance · #73 10th November 2003, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by Chi_Cygni

First point:

Hovind is a con. He is certainly no scientist. His lack of basic science knowledge is amazing, and that people don't see through this is equally shocking.

He tells 'em what they wanna hear.

$800,000.00 last year worth of "tellin' em what they wanna hear". Not a bad racket, really, especially if you believe your own mistatements.

For which he proudly pays no taxes, IIRC, although the evil IRS (obviously in league with the "evil-utionists") is going after him.

Did you know he asserts that the Oklahoma City bombing was actually secretly done by the government to further its agenda against the militia groups? (or some-such secret agenda he rambles on about).

Chi_Cygni · #74 10th November 2003, 07:45 PM

I also heard he invented a cure for cancer, something to do with vitamin B12 I think.

Chi_Cygni · #75 10th November 2003, 07:46 PM

I am new here but on reading the whole of this thread, I am shocked at the lack of basic science understanding I see. It's not surprising after all that buffoons like Hovind can sell their wares.

Vance · #76 10th November 2003, 07:59 PM

And this is what our youth are being fed.

Did you see Creationist-Heritage (who is in 8th grade) say that if you believe in evolution, you can't be a Christian? Probably the most dangerous doctrine any Christian group EVER came up with. While YEC's are still a minority sect, they are a very vocal minority and are more likely to write books, seminars and get on the airwaves (all of which make them money) than any other Christian group.

He is walking, breathing proof of what I have been saying here for a while: YEC's are undermining the ultimate message of Christianity by equating their own interpretation of Scripture with Christianity itself driving non-Christians away and creating youth who will leave the Church in droves once they learn anything.

Karl - Liberal Backslider · #77 11th November 2003, 07:07 AM

Originally Posted by creationist-Heritage

Okay where should I start. For one, Evolution is a religion and if you believe it you are not a christian.

You will take that back or explain to the moderators why the Rule 1 of these forums does not apply to you.

Karl - Liberal Backslider · #78 11th November 2003, 07:21 AM

Originally Posted by creationist-Heritage

Okay where should I start. For one, Evolution is a religion

Evolution is about science. No plausible definition of religion can possible include it.

and if you believe it you are not a christian. I am not saying your lost, your just not a Christian.

A Christian is someone who is attempting to follow Christ. It is not defined by position on scientific models.

Christian means Christ-like and Christ certainly did not believe in evolution because he made the universe,he should know.

You don't know what Our Lord did or didn't know scientifically about the origin of the universe, as a man, voluntarily subjecting Himself to the limitations of Humanity.

The creation account in Genesis does not support evolution or any kind of gap in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

It does. Right between the verses on quantum mechanics and that chapter about wave-particle duality.

If you believe evolution then you are willingly ignorant,a scoffer, as the Bible says. Which means dumb on purpose.

This is where you cross from ill-informed to downright offensive. I accept evolution because of what I know, not because of what I don't know. You are, it seems, trying to accuse me of purposely rejecting what I know to be true to accept evolution. Nothing could be further from the truth. Accepting creationism would be without question "believing what I know isn't true". Integral suicide.

If you do not believe every word of the Bible you are a Scoffer.

And you pluck that from where exactly? What does it mean to believe "every word". Do you believe both these sentences:

God brought trouble on Israel by making David take a census (Samuel)
Satan brought trouble on Israel by making David take a census (Chronicles)?

If you disagree then call Mr. Hovind and talk to him. His number is on his web site. He may not be 100% accurate

First true thing you've said so far.

but he is the first to tell you his theories may be wrong.

But you want to base your alternative scientific model on them?

And one more thing he is not a con-artist, if he was then he would put a copy right on his merchandise. He tells you you can copy anything you want, including his videos, and send them back to get your money back.

I see. The sign of a con-artist is he copyrights his stuff. Interesting. I'm sure the fraud squad will be pleased to know it's this easy. Personally, I think anyone who tells you human cytochrome C is closer to a sunflower than a chimpanzee (when human and chimp sequences are identical), or misrepresents two differently dated mammoths as being the same animal, is a con artist.

Well I hope this helped. Okay bye

No, it didn't. Sorry. Same old same old which I've seen from any number of creationists.

Dutchunter · #79 11th November 2003, 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by TheBear

A reminder to all:

This is the "Creation Science & Theistic Evolution" forum. Only Christians are permitted to post here. If you are a non-Christian, please refrain from posting here. There is another forum, "Science, Creation & Evolution", which is in the open forums area, and all are permitted to post in that forum. This one is for Christians Only.

I've read thru both forums and I cannot tell the difference. Anyone could say "I'm a Christian" and post their nonsense here anyway. Is there a Creation only forum where we can discuss God's awesome Creation and not have to argue with those who claim that "science" proves them right, when in fact it seems every day they're proven wrong and can only offer- well, things change.

notto · #80 11th November 2003, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dutchunter

I've read thru both forums and I cannot tell the difference. Anyone could say "I'm a Christian" and post their nonsense here anyway. Is there a Creation only forum where we can discuss God's awesome Creation and not have to argue with those who claim that "science" proves them right, when in fact it seems every day they're proven wrong and can only offer- well, things change.

Most of us here, even us theistic evolutionist are discussing God's awesome Creation. What is being discussed is HOW God created. You seem to be confusing accepting God as the Creator with Creationism theology and 'theories'. They are not the same.