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20th November 2006, 11:24 PM
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I'm on the fence about Limited Atonement of the TULIP. I'm leaning towards being a Four Point Calvinist.
Can one be a Four Point Calvinist? I read an article that argues you cannot. It said if you reject Limited Atonement, the others cannot stand.
What say you? What are you? Four or Five?
God Bless!
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For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved - Romans 10:13
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not parish, but have everlasting life - John 3:16
I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me - John 14:6 |
20th November 2006, 11:43 PM
|  | Soli Deo gloria!
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| | Join Date: 1st July 2004 Location: Lambsburg, VA
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Reps: 7,410,264,898,619 (power: 7,410,264,907) | | "Four-point Calvinists" are sometimes called Amyraldists... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amyraldism
In my conversion to belief in Reformed soteriology, I started out as a four-pointer but quickly became convinced of the truth and logic behind the 'L' as well.
Here's an excellent resource on the topic: http://www.monergism.com/thethreshol...atonement.html
...I especially like the Spurgeon excerpt.
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"Here is found the most fundamental difference between liberalism and Christianity—liberalism is altogether in the imperative mood, while Christianity begins with a triumphant indicative; liberalism appeals to man's will, while Christianity announces, first, a gracious act of God." —J. Gresham Machen
"Christianity is the sine qua non of the intelligibility of anything." —Cornelius Van Til |
20th November 2006, 11:53 PM
|  | Just a humble servant
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20th November 2006, 11:56 PM
|  | Cajun's for Christ
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Reps: 11,554,072,780,599,058 (power: 11,554,072,780,610) | | Originally Posted by DiscipleOfIAm  I'm on the fence about Limited Atonement of the TULIP. I'm leaning towards being a Four Point Calvinist.
Can one be a Four Point Calvinist? I read an article that argues you cannot. It said if you reject Limited Atonement, the others cannot stand.
What say you? What are you? Four or Five?
God Bless!
I can think of two very prominent/famous four point Calvinists or Amyraldites, They are Rev. Richard Baxter of ( Reformed Pastor fame) and SR's own Dr. Steve.
I guess you can be a Four-pointer. I think it is inconsistent, but lots of folks brighter than I am have disagreed with me on that point.
In Christ,
Kenith
__________________ Christianity is a pro-life faith. |
21st November 2006, 02:44 AM
| | Contributor
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| | Join Date: 19th August 2005 Location: kain tuck ee
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Reps: 13,506,688,551,922,350 (power: 0) | | | To me they all stand or fall together. There are many reasons I believe that particular redemption is both Scriptural and true. Not the least of which is any other view makes the atonement of Christ something other than an actual atonement and makes His suretyship pointless. BTW, I do not hold to the sufficient for all but efficient for some view. I believe it is dealing in hypotheticals that have no usefulness but to give theologians something to debate. |
21st November 2006, 05:22 AM
|  | Jacob the twister.....
 
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Reps: 4,363,275,777,217,893,888 (power: 4,363,275,777,217,958) | | Originally Posted by DiscipleOfIAm I'm on the fence about Limited Atonement of the TULIP. I'm leaning towards being a Four Point Calvinist.
Can one be a Four Point Calvinist? I read an article that argues you cannot. It said if you reject Limited Atonement, the others cannot stand.
What say you? What are you? Four or Five?
God Bless! I can see why some Christians are 4 pointers , they seem to have some scriptures on their side , and at first glance preaching the Gospel to everyone seems to imply an unlimited atonement , after all it is the person and work of Christ that sinners are to put their faith in.
However , a real study of the words used about the work of Christs atonement will show it is definite (literally deals with sin) and an indefinite atonement cannot save anyone.
Either our sins have been "blotted out" and God is "Propitiated" or He is not and we are still in our sins.
Other arguements relating to the words "all" and "world" can be shown from scripture to be less than universal.
Greetings Cygnus. 
__________________ "Of course no one can resist God's Will," 3rdHeaven
"... none can resist God's will, " LetsObeyChrist; 15th January 2012 at 02:38 AM.
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Last edited by cygnusx1; 21st November 2006 at 05:29 AM.
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21st November 2006, 06:14 AM
|  | Regular Member
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| | Join Date: 3rd November 2006 Location: Virginia
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Reps: 2,320 (power: 8) | | What Ron (who can't spell his name) said. I agree. They all stand together.
I am 5 points and supralapsarian (did I spell that right?). Can't see it any other way and still "let" God be God and the Bible make sense.  |
21st November 2006, 09:11 AM
| | Contributor
| | Join Date: 18th July 2004
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Reps: 3,107,876 (power: 3,121) | | Originally Posted by DiscipleOfIAm I'm on the fence about Limited Atonement of the TULIP. I'm leaning towards being a Four Point Calvinist.
Can one be a Four Point Calvinist? I read an article that argues you cannot. It said if you reject Limited Atonement, the others cannot stand.
What say you? What are you? Four or Five?
God Bless!
If you deny limited atonement then you are an Amyraldian and this leads by logic to neonomianism.
Denying limited atonement means you deny that the death of Christ was satisfactory, vicarious and efficacious as I argue here: http://www.christianforums.com/showp...68&postcount=1
__________________ "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.
The world and all its people belong to him.
For he laid the earth’s foundation on the seas
and built it on the ocean depths."
Psalm 24:1, 2
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21st November 2006, 10:03 AM
| | Soli Deo gloria!
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| | Join Date: 1st July 2004 Location: Lambsburg, VA
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Reps: 7,410,264,898,619 (power: 7,410,264,907) | | Originally Posted by mlqurgw I do not hold to the sufficient for all but efficient for some view.
Ok. I'm going to bite on this. Why not?
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"Here is found the most fundamental difference between liberalism and Christianity—liberalism is altogether in the imperative mood, while Christianity begins with a triumphant indicative; liberalism appeals to man's will, while Christianity announces, first, a gracious act of God." —J. Gresham Machen
"Christianity is the sine qua non of the intelligibility of anything." —Cornelius Van Til |
21st November 2006, 11:35 AM
| | Contributor
| | Join Date: 18th July 2004
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Reps: 3,107,876 (power: 3,121) | | Originally Posted by 7cworldwide Ok. I'm going to bite on this. Why not?
Because it is unscriptural! How would you prove it?
__________________ "The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it.
The world and all its people belong to him.
For he laid the earth’s foundation on the seas
and built it on the ocean depths."
Psalm 24:1, 2
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