Scientific Foreknowledge in the Bible

SBfaithful · #1 11th April 2003, 04:24 AM

These could have already been discussed on this forum but I have not seen mention of it yet. It is very interesting to me. I would like to here others thoughts on this.

Seems to me that the Old Testament authors had knowledge that could only have been gained through divine inspiration.

The Moon:

Isaiah 13:10

...the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Ezekiel 32:7

...I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

It sounds to me like the moon not shining is a direct effect of the sun being covered. If that is not direct enough what about

Job 25:5

Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not...

I have more of these concerning stars, meteorology,biology, hydrology, and more.

euphoric · #2 11th April 2003, 04:52 AM

Today at 08:24 AM SBfaithful said this in Post #1

These could have already been discussed on this forum but I have not seen mention of it yet. It is very interesting to me. I would like to here others thoughts on this.

Seems to me that the Old Testament authors had knowledge that could only have been gained through divine inspiration.

The Moon:

Isaiah 13:10

...the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Ezekiel 32:7

...I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

It sounds to me like the moon not shining is a direct effect of the sun being covered. If that is not direct enough what about

Job 25:5

Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not...

I have more of these concerning stars, meteorology,biology, hydrology, and more.

Only under the most tortured interpretation could you conclude that those verses are ascribing moonlight to refracted sunlight.  It seems much more plausible that the verses are simply saying that it will be dark and neither the sun nor moon will shine.  I see no evidence that they understood a cause and effect relationship.

-brett

SBfaithful · #3 11th April 2003, 05:05 AM

The stars:

Genesis 22:17

That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore...

Jeremiah 33:22

As the host of the heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured...

Ptolemy counted 1,056 stars, Brahe counted 777, Kepler counted 1,005. All they had to do was read the Bible and realize they would not be able to count them. Will we ever count all the stars?

Scientists can only estimate how many stars are in the heavens and the current estimate I believe is 10 to the 21st. The estimate of the grains of sand on the earth is 10 to the 25th. When scientists discover more stars and come to an agreeable estimate as to the grains of sand on the earth wouldn't it be funny if the two matched.

1 Corinthians 15:41

There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.

How did Paul know that stars differed from one another?

MartinM · #4 11th April 2003, 05:12 AM

This is some kind of joke, right?

Arikay · #5 11th April 2003, 05:23 AM

Well, one thing you will notice is that the bible only predicts things in hindsight.
If the bible is a scientific textbook, can you use the bible to make a prediction that we have not figured out yet, and then have the evidence match this prediction?

Well, your scripture seems to show a lack of scientific knowledge (which is expected concerning the time it was written in).

But first the moon. It does not take divine inspiration to figure out the sun lights the moon.

Im sure the people of the OT got to see a Solar Eclipse. When they saw that the moon moves infront of the sun, and loses its glow (is black), im sure they started to question wether the moon actualy produces light. Leaving the only other light producers in the sky, the stars and the sun.

Now, the moon can be up during the day and is visible. The only light source (between the sun and stars) thats visible is the sun.

So you could assume the sun lights the moon.

Now there are other possibilities, but it doesnt take too much logic to come to the conclusion the sun is what makes the moon glow. And I Didnt need divine inspiration.

However, you posted that the scripture says this:

...I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

Um, When was the last time you saw a cloud that could cover the sun and stop the moon from shining?

This seems to show that they lacked the knowledge of where the sun, moon and clouds, were compared to each other.
Should we just ignore scientific error?

Today at 12:24 AM SBfaithful said this in Post #1

These could have already been discussed on this forum but I have not seen mention of it yet. It is very interesting to me. I would like to here others thoughts on this.

Seems to me that the Old Testament authors had knowledge that could only have been gained through divine inspiration.

The Moon:

Isaiah 13:10

...the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.

Ezekiel 32:7

...I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

It sounds to me like the moon not shining is a direct effect of the sun being covered. If that is not direct enough what about

Job 25:5

Behold even to the moon, and it shineth not...

I have more of these concerning stars, meteorology,biology, hydrology, and more.

SBfaithful · #6 11th April 2003, 05:45 AM

[b]Today at 09:23 AM Arikay said this in Post #5

Well, one thing you will notice is that the bible only predicts things in hindsight.

What do you mean hindsight? The people of those times did not know of these things. I was taught that we didn't know the stars were infinite until 1940. I was taught that we didn't know there was a place that was void of stars in the north until the 19th century. But Job 26:7 seemed to think so. The Bible was written long before these things were known. Tell me why Ptolemy thought he counted them all. Or, why was he even trying?

[b]Today at 09:23 AM Arikay said this in Post #5

If the bible is a scientific textbook, can you use the bible to make a prediction that we have not figured out yet, and then have the evidence match this prediction?

The Bible is not a scientific textbook. It is just interesting to see how many things they knew, that others of the time would not have.

[b]Today at 09:23 AM Arikay said this in Post #5

Well, your scripture seems to show a lack of scientific knowledge (which is expected concerning the time it was written in).

But first the moon. It does not take divine inspiration to figure out the sun lights the moon.

Im sure the people of the OT got to see a Solar Eclipse. When they saw that the moon moves infront of the sun, and loses its glow (is black), im sure they started to question wether the moon actualy produces light. Leaving the only other light producers in the sky, the stars and the sun.

Now, the moon can be up during the day and is visible. The only light source (between the sun and stars) thats visible is the sun.

So you could assume the sun lights the moon.

Now there are other possibilities, but it doesnt take too much logic to come to the conclusion the sun is what makes the moon glow. And I Didnt need divine inspiration.

I'll give you that. It makes sense to me.

Today at 09:23 AM Arikay said this in Post #5

However, you posted that the scripture says this:

...I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light.

Um, When was the last time you saw a cloud that could cover the sun and stop the moon from shining?

This seems to show that they lacked the knowledge of where the sun, moon and clouds, were compared to each other.
Should we just ignore scientific error?

That was Ezekiel 32:7 from the NIV, on this thread I am using the KJV. He was saying that God would cover the sun, which he is very capable of doing. I on't agree that this is scientifis error.

[/quote]

SBfaithful · #7 11th April 2003, 05:46 AM

Arikay · #8 11th April 2003, 06:10 AM

What do you mean hindsight? The people of those times did not know of these things. I was taught that we didn't know the stars were infinite until 1940. I was taught that we didn't know there was a place that was void of stars in the north until the 19th century. But Job 26:7 seemed to think so. The Bible was written long before these things were known. Tell me why Ptolemy thought he counted them all. Or, why was he even trying?

What I mean by hindsight is that the bible only seems to have scientific information in it, after science has found it.
Its interesting that many years ago, scripture from the bible was used as part of the belief that the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around us.

One interesting thing is that a current count of our stars might still be wrong. As the stars are now very old (depending on what kind and how far away they are). Just recently astronomers got to watch two stars hit each other and melt together. In reality that event happend many many years ago, but it is only Just now getting to earth.

I do agree, its amazing what the people did know. But I wouldnt think the information was too grand to have only been god given.
An interesting aspect of god given information is the fact that the Egyptians and the chinese seem to have been much more advanced scientifically than gods select group.

I don't agree that this is scientific error.

How can you not agree that its a scientific error? A cloud exists in the atmosphere of earth. The sun exists 90 some odd million miles away and the moon exists around 240,000 miles away. Its imossible for a cloud in our atmosphere to get in between the two.

SBfaithful · #9 11th April 2003, 06:21 AM

Today at 10:10 AM Arikay said this in Post #8

What do you mean hindsight? The people of those times did not know of these things. I was taught that we didn't know the stars were infinite until 1940. I was taught that we didn't know there was a place that was void of stars in the north until the 19th century. But Job 26:7 seemed to think so. The Bible was written long before these things were known. Tell me why Ptolemy thought he counted them all. Or, why was he even trying?

What I mean by hindsight is that the bible only seems to have scientific information in it, after science has found it.
Its interesting that many years ago, scripture from the bible was used as part of the belief that the earth was the center of the universe and that the sun revolved around us.

One interesting thing is that a current count of our stars might still be wrong. As the stars are now very old (depending on what kind and how far away they are). Just recently astronomers got to watch two stars hit each other and melt together. In reality that event happend many many years ago, but it is only Just now getting to earth.

I do agree, its amazing what the people did know. But I wouldnt think the information was too grand to have only been god given.
An interesting aspect of god given information is the fact that the Egyptians and the chinese seem to have been much more advanced scientifically than gods select group.

I don't agree that this is scientific error.

How can you not agree that its a scientific error? A cloud exists in the atmosphere of earth. The sun exists 90 some odd million miles away and the moon exists around 240,000 miles away. Its imossible for a cloud in our atmosphere to get in between the two.

There is no scripture that says the earth is the center of the universe. If there is please show it to me. It is true that the early church accepted that. But not due to a verse. It just sounded good to them and they ran with it; perhaps a little too far.

I do not believe that is scientific error because like I said, this is what the Lord was saying that he would do. And, IMO, he can do that.

SBfaithful · #10 11th April 2003, 06:23 AM

Goodnight,
I have many more that I would like to get opinions on.
But they will have to wait until tomorrow(I mean today)