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  #101  
Old 6th December 2006, 09:56 AM
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Question

Originally Posted by Starcrystal View Post
What I REALLY think is that the PREACHING of tithing is wrong. Whether or not a person gives 10% or 5% or 99% to their church is irrelevant. But,...... if they do it specifically because they are being convinced to do so because of the tithe teaching, then there is a problem. I wouldn't say this about you since you appear to know the truth about what tithing was. What I said goes for people who insist that tithing is for today, for the church, and a Christian has to give 10% of their INCOME (money) or else stand the danger of being under a curse. That's where the real problem lies - when pastors throw that curse scripture at you in order to convince you to tithe.
This was your statement:
While some people have claimed to be blessed by tithing, the fact remains they are accepting and promoting a false doctrine.
It was a general claim that ANYONE tithing is accepting & promoting a false doctrine - which I don't agree with & take offense to as a Believer.

By the way, in speaking with a Pastor this morning about this subject, he informed me that Abraham tithed BEFORE THE LAW came (Gen. 14:18)... so tithing wasn't just a Torah law - it was offered even before law came.
& in Gen. 28:22 And this stone, which I have set [for] a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
So, giving one tenth is a valid biblical principle - not that in the NT we're 'bound' to it by law.

Another mystery to me is, I hear alot of people Criticizing Christians for not giving ENOUGH of their wealth to charity/God... yet they're attacked for tithing 1/10th.

I'm confused as to which they should be doing? selling "all" they own to give to God becuz they're prospering? or not have to even give 10% of their income which is asking too much of us (or does this only pertain to the RICH & everyone else is exempt)?
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  #102  
Old 6th December 2006, 10:50 AM
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can you tithe to missionaries instead of church ?

certainly, or to missions that feed the homeless and preach the gospel.
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  #103  
Old 6th December 2006, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mont974x4 View Post
I pray for that for you too.

Thank you, mont. I should start 6 months of chemo in the next couple of weeks. This kind of lymphoma was generally considered incurable, but some new drugs of late seem to be having much better success than the old ones.
  #104  
Old 6th December 2006, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Nadiine View Post
Missed your post, sorry Wizzer, I"m sorry to hear this.

I would be happy to pray. May God bless you and bring healing to you.
Thank you, Nadiine. Please pray first and foremost for my wife. She is struggling with it more than I.

Wizzer
  #105  
Old 6th December 2006, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Nadiine View Post
...
By the way, in speaking with a Pastor this morning about this subject, he informed me that Abraham tithed BEFORE THE LAW came (Gen. 14:18)... so tithing wasn't just a Torah law - it was offered even before law came.
& in Gen. 28:22 And this stone, which I have set [for] a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
...


Hello Nadiine,

Think about this carefully. Are you (or is your pastor) claiming that we (Christians) should do everything Abraham did?

Hint: I think your pastor has just dug himself into a hole.

Let me know what you think after you've had a chance to think it through.

Sincerely,
Wizzer
  #106  
Old 7th December 2006, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Nadiine View Post
This was your statement:


It was a general claim that ANYONE tithing is accepting & promoting a false doctrine - which I don't agree with & take offense to as a Believer.

By the way, in speaking with a Pastor this morning about this subject, he informed me that Abraham tithed BEFORE THE LAW came (Gen. 14:18)... so tithing wasn't just a Torah law - it was offered even before law came.
& in Gen. 28:22 And this stone, which I have set [for] a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee.
So, giving one tenth is a valid biblical principle - not that in the NT we're 'bound' to it by law.

Another mystery to me is, I hear alot of people Criticizing Christians for not giving ENOUGH of their wealth to charity/God... yet they're attacked for tithing 1/10th.

I'm confused as to which they should be doing? selling "all" they own to give to God becuz they're prospering? or not have to even give 10% of their income which is asking too much of us (or does this only pertain to the RICH & everyone else is exempt)?
IF they do it because they believe the teaching or the preacher promoting it. Someone who just happens to give 10% such as yourself who is aware of the true meaning of tithes would not be supporting the doctrine since it appears you give that amount freely, not because someone said you'd be cursed if you didn't.

the pastors response you got is a typical one. Yes, Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek... it was a one time tithe and it was spoils of war, AND it was mainly livestock. It wasn't money.

Also, Genesis 28 - we must read the surrounding verses:

"And Jacob vowed a vow, saying, If God will be with me, and will keep me in this way that I go, and will give me bread to eat, and raiment to put on,
So that I come again to my father's house in peace; then shall the LORD be my God:
And this stone, which I have set for a pillar, shall be God's house: and of all that thou shalt give me I will surely give the tenth unto thee."

Jacob asks God for bread to eat (food) and clothing. Then he says all God gives him he will give a tenth to God. Again we see food involved, not money - though I'm sure some would interpret the "all" to include money.
That is when we have to look at all the Old Testement scriptures that deal with tithing. It is there we find out that tithes were always food.

Also, Jacob seems to be making a personal decision here. He does not do it because some elder told him he had to, or that it was a command of God. In fact he sounds like he freely offers it... in fact he offers it on a condition IF God does several things for him: be with him, keep him in the way (his journey), give him food and clothing, and bring him to his fathers house in peace... Five different things! Jacob says if God does all that for him then the Lord will be his God and he will give him the tenth.

Wow. I really don't think that passage can be used to promote tithing to the church, otherwise I can say something like "If God will prosper us so we get out of debt and are able to provide a reasonably comfortable (warm & dry) home for our child - THEN I will surely give God a certain percentage. In fact Jacobs vow (which a vow is always a personal- individual thing) is conditional that he must receive all the things he asks of God BEFORE he gives the tenth... "THEN shall the Lord be my God...."

Thanks! That one just shed more light on the tithing issue once I read it more closely.

What Wizzer said is partly true. The pastor maybe didn't "dig a hole" but what he did do is throw one verse out without referring to the previous verses that most certainly are connected. Jacobs tithe was conditional on God blessing him with several things first... and secondly we find it was part of a vow which was an individual agreement between jacob and God. One persons vow is not intended to be applied to all.
I think the pastor unintentionally helped some of us, because I will ALWAYS seek the surrounding verses to see if the verse being used was in proper context. That's a must do.
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Last edited by Starcrystal; 7th December 2006 at 10:54 AM.
  #107  
Old 8th December 2006, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Starcrystal View Post
the pastors response you got is a typical one. Yes, Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek... it was a one time tithe and it was spoils of war, AND it was mainly livestock. It wasn't money.

Also, Genesis 28 - we must read the surrounding verses:
K, in this Pastor's defense, he also agrees that we aren't under the tithe of the OT today. I specifically asked him for verses that existed 'outside the Torah Law' that pertained to a tenth-tithe of any kind.

Most Pastors at the churches I attended never asked for tithes either - offerings are all elective and up to our conscience.

My husband and I feel "comfortable" with 10% because it was used in the OT as a standard.

I think we should each give as liberally & generously as we can while able to stay CHEERFUL in giving it. If you're giving too much or too little, your cheeryness will probably go right away?
It's up to each person's conscience & alot might have to do with how big a priority the Lord and/or the Lord's work has in their life.

Wow. I really don't think that passage can be used to promote tithing to the church,
From my experience, it's usually not any 1 verse that proves an entire doctrine; like the Trinity - - it takes more than one verse to give the full truth of God's identity - it doesn't mean the verse isn't supportive of it tho.

But you also have Malachi 3 where the tithe WAS the OT standard amount... one tenth was a general amount as the guideline (& they actually gave more than just that 10% too in other types of offerings).

Anyways, thanks for the clarifications & reply
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