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  #11  
Unread 13th November 2006, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Christopher777 View Post
I'm asking this question because as I've been delving farther into Christian theology, I've discovered that Lutherans don't believe in the Rapture (which is clearly stated in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18). To be honest, the hope of the Rapture coming possibly soon is what keeps me going everyday.
I was not aware of this little fact when I decided to remain Lutheran a while ago (as opposed to becoming Catholic or Pentecostal). I'd like to stay Lutheran, but only if my beliefs about the end times are tolerated by other Lutherans. I've spent enough of my life being a "black sheep".
I've also been told that most Lutherans don't believe in the Millennial Kingdom, either. Now this is very clearly talked about in Revelation.
I guess it just frustrates me when Christians say they don't believe in things that are explained nicely in the Bible.
Another thing that I told my oldest boy, who is into esctology very heavy, is "What difference does is make when Jesus comes as long as you're ready". I seen too many people use it as an excuse to wait till the last minute to get their act together. I think that's what my son is doing since he "lives" with his girlfriend and hasn't raised his kids and doesn't attend church. 'Nuff said.
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  #12  
Unread 13th November 2006, 09:55 PM
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To be honest, the hope of the Rapture coming possibly soon is what keeps me going everyday.
Christopher, I'm curious what you mean by the above statement. Is it referring to Christ's second coming as Lutherans believe or as the Left Behind group believes?
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Unread 13th November 2006, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Radidio View Post
Another thing that I told my oldest boy, who is into esctology very heavy, is "What difference does is make when Jesus comes as long as you're ready". I seen too many people use it as an excuse to wait till the last minute to get their act together. I think that's what my son is doing since he "lives" with his girlfriend and hasn't raised his kids and doesn't attend church. 'Nuff said.
Eschatology is merely the study of the end times. It isn't a name for any type of premillenial hype.
Another word for it is "Parousia."
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  #14  
Unread 14th November 2006, 12:30 AM
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Rapture will happen.
Concerning pre-tribulational rapture - there is not one verse proving that.
Yet there is a distinct event of being caught up in the air. Mid-tribulation, post-tribulation? I am not certain.

Concerning amillenianism.
In my view, Lutheranism does not have a good case for amillenianism.

One of the weak points of Lutheranism is their eschatology.

Fortunately, this topic is not covered in the Confessions, ... so, theologically Lutheranism is simply silent on it.

Yet many Lutherans do not accept that silence and take charge while the Confessions are silent.

Concerning being a "black sheep".

There is being a "black sheep" for being wrong (not having Scriptural support) ... and there is being a "black sheep" while having Scriptural support.

Re-examine the pre-trib rapture and I'll respond to each verse that they present showing that there are NO VERSES proving pre-trib rapture. Yet rapture will happen towards the end of Tribulation (in my view).
But why be a "black sheep" while having no Scriptural support for pre-trib rapture?

But millenianism - Scriptures are clear that there will be a millenium. "Black sheep" in that context? Why worry? You have Scriptures on your side.

I was called here about everything under the sun (within the Forum rules and outside ) concerning the millenianism.

But don't look for a group following the pre-trib rapture.
There are side effects.

Thanks,
Ed
  #15  
Unread 14th November 2006, 01:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Edial View Post
Concerning amillenianism.
In my view, Lutheranism does not have a good case for amillenianism.
Lutherans do not hold to "amillenialism" which literally means "no millenium." The "millenium" refers to the "1000 years" mentioned in Revelation which is symbolic of the current Church age, the time when Christ reigns. That age is presently being realized, thus Lutherans, who hold to the Scriptural teachings of eschatology, hold to what is known as "realized millenium." The "1000 year reign" is here and now.
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  #16  
Unread 14th November 2006, 06:21 AM
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Well, I don't personally know much about the end of the world. I used to be pretty into the left behind stuff, but it was at a time where I was hungry for easy reading that had some kind of Christian faith behind it, and I ate it up without really thinking about it. Since then I've rejected Christ and thanks to the grace of God, he has returned the gift of my faith. But, now I do not take anything for granted, and quite frankly, there are things I don't agree with the Lutheran church with- some because I think opposite, some because I am not sure. But above anything, I consider myself Lutheran for a few simple reasons. 1)I agree that communion is not a symbol, but really the body and blood of Christ 2) I believe in traditional church service (i.e., hymns, sermon, confession... no freakin' rock bands, you know what I mean) 3) I consider my fellow Lutherans, even the ones I disagree with highly (LCMS etc.) to be my brothers and sisters (even though I'm sure it is not mutual with everyone). 4) I believe faith is a gift of God, not a personal ability. It can be rejected, but never is a work of ones own credit.
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Unread 14th November 2006, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Radidio View Post
Another thing that I told my oldest boy, who is into esctology very heavy, is "What difference does is make when Jesus comes as long as you're ready". I seen too many people use it as an excuse to wait till the last minute to get their act together. I think that's what my son is doing since he "lives" with his girlfriend and hasn't raised his kids and doesn't attend church. 'Nuff said.


The whole idea of this was man made, and fairly recent invention. A few more things that will help dispell it, as Radidio said above, many people use it as an excuse for lazy iving and procrastinaton, thinking they have 1000 years to get themselves right with The Lord after a live of selfish sin.

First of all, they pick out just a handful of verses from the bible, Daniel, Thessalonians, and Revelation. They take these verses out of context and completely ignore the picturesque writing in Revelations. What they should be doing is basing their faith and understanding on passages that are clearly written, the promises of God.

Next, they are trying to establish the old Jewish belief that Jesus would come back and set up an eartly kingdom, but Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world"


Like the others said, their beliefs are heavily into decison theology, that in fact they will have the 1000 year reign to make their decision for Christ.

Also a gospil of works righteousness. This comepletely undermines the saving works of Jesus, saying this work was not quite enough, that they will finally have to work things off during the thousand year reign and get right with God.

The starnge thing is, that those churches among this belief don't even agree with each other, they all pick and choose what sounds the best to them. Sinful man wants to be in control of his destiny, and thats all this is about.

If you die in faith that Jesus suffered and died to erase your sins, then when you pass away you will be taken to be with Him. If not, then you will go the way of this sinful world. Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the light, No one goes to Father except by Me.

When judgement comes, those believe will be spared judgement, We will be of you chose the term, be raptured, we will be called from the grave, where we will meet the believers still alive, and in the twinkling of an eye, we will be given new bodies, spiritual bodies wihout sin or any the weakness that we know in this life. From the grave to the banquet served by Our Lord in Heaven. That is what we have to look forward to. Eternal life with Our Lord in bodies that will have no pain, suffering or sickness, only pure glee, and spending eternity with The Lord who as so graciously lavished His love upon us.

Beets the rapture theory don't you think? And we have Jesus sure promises that it will happen just that way.
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Jn 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Rev 21:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
Rev 21:2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God.
Rev 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."
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Unread 14th November 2006, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by palidin_carvin
Since then I've rejected Christ
Surely that is a misstype.
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  #19  
Unread 14th November 2006, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by LutherNut View Post
Lutherans do not hold to "amillenialism" which literally means "no millenium." The "millenium" refers to the "1000 years" mentioned in Revelation which is symbolic of the current Church age, the time when Christ reigns. That age is presently being realized, thus Lutherans, who hold to the Scriptural teachings of eschatology, hold to what is known as "realized millenium." The "1000 year reign" is here and now.
Oh, they can hold to whatever they prefer.

The Bible however, does not agree with them.

The problem is, the Bible describes that during that time period there will be tremendous peace in the world ...

I guess I could shut off the TV ...
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Unread 14th November 2006, 10:03 AM
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"Next, they are trying to establish the old Jewish belief that Jesus would come back and set up an eartly kingdom, but Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world""

It's true Jesus did say this. But what about what is written in Revelation 21:1

"Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea."

So let's indulge ourselves and look at this verse in relation to the claims of the Left Behind series theology. When Jesus returns to set up His millenial kingdom on the new earth, His words are true. His kingdom is not of this world that we are currently living in, but will be of the new earth and the new heaven that is yet to come. That interpretation seems to fit in with the whole Left Behind theology of dispensationalism. Is this a possibility?
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