Insect diversity falsifies the flood myth

The subject of insects and the flood has come up on another thread so I thought I would expand on it a bit.  As with so many other falsifications of the flood myth creation "scientists" attempt to explain away a tiny part of the problem and then claim they have solved the entire problem.  As usual the YEC "answers" are far off the mark.

The diversity of insect life on earth is yet another falisification of the myth of a worldwide flood. It is totally absurd to claim that all of the approximately 850,000 species of insects on earth are descended from those who survived the flood either on floating mats of vegetation or on the ark as accidental passengers as creationists claim these days. In fact, the vast majority of insect species. including entire families and perhaps even entire orders could not have survived a year of flood on floating vegetation and many, perhaps the majority of species could not have survived the alleged worldwide flood either on or off the ark.

Consider the 2000+ species of the order Ephemeroptera (Mayflys), which only live in unpolluted fresh water, many only in running water. The adults have very short lives (some only live 90 minutes) during which they must mate and lay eggs. Even if they somehow live in the salty flood water, which most could not, they will be greatly spread out by the flood.  How will they find their mates and where will they lay their eggs? There are many other insect species that only live in fresh water during parts of their life cycle. How will they survive the flood? Did Noah have a fresh running stream on board the ark?

Then there are the social insects such as bees, ants and wasps,that require a queen and a colony. All those yellow jacket wasps that  fly around in the fall will die by winter, they are workers, the queen and colonies only survive in holes in the ground. How will they survive a worldwide flood on floating vegetation? Around here we have insects called sand hornets or more properly cicada killer wasps. They dig their burrows in sand or soft earth and lay their eggs in locusts that they have killed. The adults do not survive over winter. How will their eggs survive a worldwide flood? You can usually wash them out with a garden hose if you want to. How did they survive forty days of global rain and a year of flood that rearranged all the world's geology?

The caterpillar of the Monarch butterfly only lives on living milkweed plants and Monarchs go through more than one life cycle a year. The adults only feed on nectar and will only lay eggs on living milkweed. While many species of lepidoptera eat various plants, many others eat only specific plants, even if the caterpillars survived somehow, how would cocoons survive, and even if they did how would the adults find other adults to mate with and where would they lay their eggs. Generally, all these life cycles are complete in a year or less. Many of these butterflies and moths are quite fragile. Many other insects require specific living plants or animals for parts of their life cycles.  What about all those insects that feed on nectar from living flowers during parts of their life cycles? How would they survive a year on floating vegetation?


How about desert insects and arachnids that are adapted to live in very dry climates? Do you really think they could all survive for a year in water on floating vegetation?

There are also the cicadas, like the so-called 17 year locusts, that live most of their lives in the ground under a tree, then emerge, live for a short while, mate and lay their eggs in the branches of a tree. After a few days or weeks the eggs hatch and the larvae drop to the ground to live under the tree till the next cycle. They need healthy trees that will live until the next cycle. How did they survive on floating vegetation? What about all the other insects that require mature living trees for their life cycles? How could they have survived after the flood? Did Noah have a small forest on the ark?

These are only a few examples. I am sure that anyone with knowledge of entomology can think of many, many more.

BTW before you give me the “Darwin showed that insects could survive on logs and floating vegetation” claim here is my reply in advance. “Darwin speculated that some snail species survived for some time on floating mats of vegetation or logs going between islands and the mainland and he was probably right. This is not nearly the same as requiring all 'kinds' of insects and invertebrates to survive for more than a year on floating vegetation and then survive after landing on a flood devastated landscape.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

Excellent post, Mr. Bandersnatch.

Yes, definatly.

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Green faeries

Another nice falsification of the Flood. Also a good way of pointing up the ad hoc hypotheses used by creationists. As you say, they work for the SPECIFIC species mentioned, but not for all.

BTW, remember, the other ad hoc hypotheses of the Flood require the vegetation not to be floating, but to be BURIED in order to form the coal and oil deposits. That ad hoc hypothesis counters the ad hoc hypothesis of floating vegetation to keep insects alive.

But doesn't Genesis 6:7 and 6:17 say the Flood will kill ALL "living thngs"? So, once again, the creationists are not only making ad hoc hypotheses that can be falsified and contradict their other ad hoc hypotheses, they are abandoning what Micaiah calls the "plain teaching" of a literal reading of the Bible.

It's a lose-lose-lose scenario.

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"If sound science appears to contradict the Bible, we may be sure that it is our interpretation of the Bible that is at fault." Christian Observer, 1832, pg. 437

"Christians should look on evolution simply as the method by which God works." Rev. James McCosh, theologian and President of Princeton, 1890

Its not all lose lose lose. Im sure the people who sell these theories for money "win" until they meet their god and he is mad at them for selling out, hehehe.

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Green faeries

Well the YECs now use the fact that insects breathe through their skin and Genesis 7:22 which says that all who had the breath of life in their nostrils died to ignore those verses that say that every creeping thing died and to ignore that Leviticus defines grasshoppers and locusts as creeping things that ye may eat, so insects were clearly considered creeping things.  It doesn't matter because so many families of insects could not have survived the flood on or off the ark.  The other problem this raises is that whales,  dolphins and manatee clearly have the breath of life in their nostrils. How did Noah save them on the ark?  Maybe the instructions for building the giant aquarium on the ark were just left out of the Bible.  I wonder how whales went on to the ark two by two.  I guess ambulocetus might have crawled on board but modern whales present a real problem.

The logical error of hasty generalization is a cornerstone of YEC.  This is a classic case.  Some insects could survive a while on floating vegetation so all insects kinds could have survived a year of flood on floating vegetation. A little analysis clearly shows that this is false. I have never seen a realistist counter to this flood falsification.  The infamous Karl Crawford said that the flood could have "collected a forest along with its dirt" to save ground dwelling insects. I hope everyone is able to see the absurdity of that.

The Frumious Bandersnatch

Its funny how YECs take the bible literally but they seem to "forget" what the bible says when it doesnt fit with their views.

One thing for fun, is that if you made a cramped tank on the ark, for two blue whales it would be aprox, 2,203,246.75 Gallons of water. That would equal 9,363.8 Tons of water. It would also take up half of the entire bottom deck of the ark.
And thats only for Two animals. Lets hope that the blue whale wasnt a "clean" animal.

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Green faeries

I gotta ask. Why would you put water mammals in the ark?

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OK, I'll bite. What do you mean, "They seem to 'forget' what the Bible says when it doesn't fit in with their views"? You wouldn't be 'sniping' at Christians on their own forum, now would you? I'm just wondering if I am guilty of reading a 'tone' in your post, or if you were condescending to the Believers?

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My Daddy owns the whole universe and Jesus is my older brother!

Jesus said, "'Love the Lord your God with all your passion and prayer and intelligence.'
This is the most important, the first on any list.
But there is a second to set alongside it: 'Love others as well as you love yourself.'
These two commands are pegs; everything in God's Law and the Prophets hangs from them."

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Because the Bible says that everything with the breath of life its nostrils died in the flood and they have nostrils and breath. It also does say in a following verse that everything on dry land died so maybe YECs could weasel out of it that way. 

However,  as I pointed out many families of insects could not have survived on or off the ark.

The Frumious Bandersnatch