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  #11  
Old 8th January 2007, 01:19 AM
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"Hell." -- There's one interpretation of the afterlife where people die, go into soul sleep, and wake up on judgement day and are then sent into heaven and hell... What's to say we're not asleep right now? Then there's the neo-platonic view of heaven and hell simply being closeness and distance to God.

"If Christianity is supposed to make people better, why doesn't it?" -- Because people demand too many specifics, laws, regulations, so they can judge others and avoid judgement. This is a problem for any religion or philosophy.

"What's up with other religions?" And "NonChristians?" -- I believe that most religions came from an original spirituality, and that Christianity is simply the revival of it. I once compared the Trinity to h2o: steam, water, and ice are three things, but are one h2o. I went further with this and said that religion is simply a means of carrying the h2o, be it a tray for ice, or a cup for water. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised to see Zoroaster, Lao-Tzu, and some of the worshippers of Quetzalcoatl in heaven.

"God's system of justice." -- Many of the writers of the Old Testament ascribed all unexplainable actions, good or evil, to God. In the New Testament, Jesus at one point rebukes the disciples for thinking that bad things happen to bad people.

"People naturally good or naturally bad?" -- The whole "humans are evil" bit comes from an almost Manichaen dualism ("If it isn't good, it's evil"), and ignores the monist thinking that large portions of the New Testament was written in. Humans aren't evil, but they aren't good to survive. No matter how good we are, we have to ask God for forgiveness

"If God created everything, why did he set the system up this way?" -- Note, it wasn't just the tree of knowledge, it was the tree of knowledge of good and evil. I tend to believe that God is the most existant thing there is, we're imperfect copies of God's ideas, and evil is the absense of God. Adam and Eve destroyed a part of themselves by becoming aware of non-existance.

"Thought Crimes and the Righteous Atheist." -- The unconscious and preconscious mind do not matter. And I believe that most people that claim to be atheists or agnostics really are theists, even if they don't believe it. If they believe in some moral law, some infinite, a Tao or Logos, that's God in my eyes.

"Understanding God?" -- Being created in God's image, we have free-will and an ability to create (though ours is obviously limited in physical terms). We have to use various systems of justice because none of us are all-knowing, and each one is simply an attempt to closer reach the true idea of justice.
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  #12  
Old 8th January 2007, 05:52 PM
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Thanks for your response Abbadon. It's really interesting seeing people's views I've not heard these responses before lol.
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  #13  
Old 9th January 2007, 12:59 PM
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Ok I have another question. How much stock do you put in the Bible, as a "liberal Christian" ?
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  #14  
Old 9th January 2007, 03:27 PM
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As a liberal christian I will give my two pence on that question, IF its ok?

My view on the bible and I'm ready to dive behind the wall is 3 things, Prayre (does god make me feel its right?)

Does my heart make me feel its true and right?

Does the editing which has happened through history represent some of the context of the version I am reading?

Thats how I see it, and how I would advise anyone to read the bible.

Historical Context
Your own heart
Most importantly, Prayre.
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  #15  
Old 9th January 2007, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by none the wiser View Post
Ok I have another question. How much stock do you put in the Bible, as a "liberal Christian" ?
I don't even know if I would qualify as liberal Christian...especially according to CF, but I see the bible as a human book, written by human's trying to define God. I like what Richard said about listening to the heart when reading it. Do I think there are things in it which are true? Yes, but not always in a literal sense...
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  #16  
Old 9th January 2007, 04:47 PM
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I think wheather some parts are true or not, some have very important lessons, while common sence, some forget, such as loving family, loving your wife, bieng honest and true, I mean wheather true or not, isant the meanings what we strive for as humans and also christians?
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  #17  
Old 9th January 2007, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by none the wiser View Post
Ok I have another question. How much stock do you put in the Bible, as a "liberal Christian" ?
myself, the stock i put into it is, it is inspired by God(please note, i do not believe the Bible is infalliable or falliable. i believe to categorize the holy scriptures under any of these pigeon holding definitions is to suffocate the scriptures) and profitable for correction for one's life, and its a guide that shows us the way to the Logos/"The Word" of God.

any other stock i put into it is for my reconciliation with God.
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  #18  
Old 9th January 2007, 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by none the wiser
Ok I have another question. How much stock do you put in the Bible, as a "liberal Christian" ?
I believe it contains religious truth that is not corrupted, but that it was written by different humans at different times with different philosophies, copied by different humans different ways repeatedly, and it's undeniable that is has been translated through various languages, each with different nuances.

Generally, if I can find something from an outside source that goes along with the Bible, I'll be more inclined to believe that it was a historical and not just a symbolic event.

I'm almost agnostic to Abraham's existance, Jesus could have lived a century before we believe He did, and the stories of Paul and Simon Magus could have come from the same figure, but I'd still believe it to be true, just not in a historical sense.

My belief would qualify as Biblical infallibility (the belief that there is some inner truth within that cannot be completely corrupted), but actually denies inerrency (the belief that the current "face-value" interpretation denotes historical events). Unlike some Christians, I believe this truth may have been carried in some forms of Taoism, Mithraism, Zoroastrianism, and a few other religions besides Judaism and Christianity.
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  #19  
Old 10th January 2007, 12:24 PM
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Thats really wise and well said Abbadon, well done.

I have a lot of problems with the bible, espeshally the old testament, I find that I can only ever accept it with outside sources or if god himself makes me feel or know its true using suttle messages

No I do not talk to god lol. I talk, he listens, its like a unlimited recording tape machine.
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  #20  
Old 11th January 2007, 12:56 AM
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Originally Posted by none the wiser View Post
Ok I have another question. How much stock do you put in the Bible, as a "liberal Christian" ?
I believe that the writing and compiling of the books of the Bible was divinely inspired and guided by the Holy Spirit. However, I am also well aware of the fact that it as physically formed by human hands, and that it's been re-copied and translated quite a few times along the way. So I'm not a literalist. I try to look at the Bible in lingustic and historical context. Hopefully someday I'll have acquired enough knowledge of history and language to do so more accurately, or at least to be a better judge of which scholars' analyses are the most reliable.
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