Entropy and How can something come from nothing? And some evolution......

Feel free to use the Laws of Thermodynamics (Matter/energy may be altered , but not created nor destroyed and/or reduced to nothingness).

The First Law says that matter/energy cannot spring forth from nothing without cause, nor can it simply vanish.

The Second law of Thermodynamics (The law of Entropy) :The entropy function always increases in the presence of internal irreversibilities for an adiabatic, closed system. In the limiting case of an internally reversible, adiabatic process, the entropy will remain constant.

Entropy (disorder) always increases or remains constant in a closed system.

As a practical matter, for any non-trivial system entropy tends to increase due to irreversible processes. The entropy of an entire closed system can never decrease within that system. Since the universe can be modeled as a closed system the universe is considered to be entropic – that is, running down.

The Law of Entropy, that is, disorder, is a dagger aimed at the heart of Darwinian fundamentalism.

It has two applications, the entropy of the entire universe considered as a single system, and the entropy of individual, open systems. In considering the significance of entropy for the universe consider the following quote by eminent evolutionary biologist Sir Julian Huxley:

"Evolution in the extended sense can be defined as a directional and essentially irreversible process occurring in time, which in its course gives rise to an increase of variety and an increasingly high level of organization in its products. Our present knowledge indeed forces us to the view that the whole of reality is evolution – a single process of self-transformation." (Huxley)

It is difficult to conceive a more direct attack on the law of entropy than Huxley's description of evolutionism.

What is funny is Huxley's declaration that "our present knowledge" forces us to view "the whole of reality" as part of this upwards process.

Because as the Second Law makes clear, the universe ("the whole of reality"?) is entropic in nature.

Contrary to Huxley’s assertion, all relevant scientific knowledge declares the opposite, that the Second Law is overwhelmingly supported by the data. Change, including biological change, does occur, but the transformation is to increasing levels of disorganization, as evolutionary biologists have now shown. (Spetner)

So how can something come from nothing? And how does this affect the outlook on evolution?

Or forget evolution and just tell me how something comes from absolutely nothing. If there was something that started our Universe what was it?

Considering more species have died than have lived, I would say more species have increased in entropy than decreased in entropy.

Ill leave the other questions to other people who have partially answered them in other threads, However, remember, how the universe started, Has nothing to do with whether Evolution is correct or not.

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Wei wu wei

Green faeries

Evolution isn't an actual "thing" and therefore can't violate a physical law. It is a concept and a description of the evidence we find.

Why does mutation (the physical process that causes evolution) violate thermodynamics laws? We can observe random mutation happening. We know it happens and continues to happen. We know that beneficial mutations happen and affect survival. To state that these observed processes violate a physical law seems a bit ridiculous.

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If everything is in a state of entropy, and more species have died than have lived, why doesn't it have anything to do with evolution?

If the Universe was spontaneously created or brought forth into existence (or even if it came or evolved from an unknown singularity, maybe a creator?), then something created this reaction.

Since our bodies are made up of all the elements found in the Universe, I think this could have some insight to how mankind came to be.

The process of evolution still had to have an origin (a singularity if you will), where did that origin come from? Where did the first microbial come from?

How did life create itself, regardless of evolution? Our world and the law of Entropy could support the idea of intelligent and unique specimen design.

Entropy exists and it suggests things are devolving, could this not be a consideration for some kind of creation?

I accept the concept of genetic mutation of observed microbials and bacteria, both beneficial and not beneficial (entropic).

My favorite 2nd Law of Thermodynamics website, although the author is a bit silly in his question-answer setup.

http://www.secondlaw.com/

Towards the end of his description he starts talking about how entropy doesn't equal disorder.

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Evolution is the study of a small part of all of this.

The begining of life has nothing to do with the theory of evolution.

It has to do with the theory of abiogenesis.

This is a common problem, the mixing of different theories into a single group, then finding problems with part of the group and believing that this disproves the entire group.

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Wei wu wei

Green faeries

The first law says that matter/energy can be neither created nor destroyed. I don't recall anything about cause.

Scientific creationism claims that the universe was created from nothing. That contravenes the first law right there. The fact that it also claims that it was created supernaturally means that it acknowledges that it contravenes the relevant laws of nature. Since science studies processes that are in line with the laws of nature and scientific creationism starts out by ignoring the first law of thermodynamics, I don't see why you think the laws of thermodynamics are such a problem for evolution in particular. I'd be looking to your own claims if I were you.

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"Sadly, biblical literalism brings not only the bible but Christianity itself into disrepute." - The Rt. Revd. Richard Harries, Anglican Bishop of Oxford.

So what physical process used to define evolutionary theory doesn't follow the laws of thermodynamics?

Matter and energy spring from nothing all the time at the quantum level.

They just do so in such a way as to be perfectly balanced - they borrow energy and then pay it back or they appear in a particle/anti-particle pair heading in opposite directions, giving an energy balance of zero.

Current observations seem to support the idea that the entire universe has an energy balance of zero. Effectively, we are simply nothing scattered around in a more interesting way.

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'Avast, ye scurvy dogs! Rotate the rubber baby buggy bumpers!'