god given values

Angel75 · #1 17th March 2003, 08:38 PM

"Why do christians only think god can give them value?

If we found life on another planet, and (hypothetical) somehow it was proven god did not create them, would you think they are without value and therefore without basic rights and respect etc?"

I asked this in another thread,  and the person who replied only answered the first question ignoring the second...I asked them again to answer but didnt get one. Can any christians who agree with their answer that "yes in fact only god can give you value" answer the second one for me?? Yes i know it is far fetched, finding a race on another planet. Yes i know it is next to impossible to porve another god created that specific race, but humor me kay

Didymus · #2 17th March 2003, 08:41 PM

I ve never thought about this hmmm does life only have worth if my God created it ?

Aaron11 · #3 17th March 2003, 11:40 PM

The perspective that a Christian says that God is the only way to find true value, is not a statement that is an arguement for the existance of God. For one, value is subjective. Two, it is taking the supposition that there is absolute truth and that God is the creator and redeemer that we read of in the bible.

I believe that the only way to end up with a truly valuable life is through God. This doesn't argue for or against God's existence. Instead this illustrates a conclusion I can get to with the founding principal of faith in God.

The fact of your illustration (the aliens) is that I do not believe that to be true. If I believed it to be true then obviously I would have to figure out if the aliens were valuable, what their purpose was, etc. Since I do not believe this, why would I attempt to explain something that I see as impossible?

Received · #4 18th March 2003, 12:43 AM

Well, that's a big hypothetical for me. In order for the whole process of evolution to work, science needs solid evidence (it is science, mind you) that life evolved on other planets and perhaps somehow got transferred from planet to planet as we argued over with ALH84001 - the Antartic wonder found in '96. That itself is hard, especially considering that hard-core anti-God persons - the solid materialists - must not take anything on faith, and not jump to conclusions, but hold their empirical calling.

And even on top of that, I would not be satisfied with supposed life on other planets etc. giving us inductive (because this is all we can get with science - the ever-growing irony) proof for lack of belief in a creator, for when you go back and back you must conclude that it is impossible for matter to create matter - there must be a transcending 'spiritual' cause at the root of the matter, and by ceasing to call this God, I wonder how much many would bite their tongues.

Aaron11 · #5 18th March 2003, 01:18 AM

Good point C.S.

Science consistently breaks its own rules anyhow... Personally I think science might be a little overrated.

Quath · #6 18th March 2003, 10:42 AM

Yesterday at 09:18 PM Aaron11 said this in Post #5

Good point C.S.

Science consistently breaks its own rules anyhow... Personally I think science might be a little overrated.

Where does science break its own rules?  It either means you don't understand the rules or you are one of the best scientists out there and should set the science community straight.

Scott (Quath)

Angel75 · #7 18th March 2003, 11:40 AM

okay. now that it is clear some people don't understand the term hypothetical....

how about if i just ask nicely PLEASE PRETTY PLEASE answer for me??

Maybe I should ask pray4Israel directly, since she is the one who didnt completely answer the first time.

Again, since only god gives us value, if an alien race (or even better since it is more realistic)....clones became part of the human race. Would you consider them second class citizens, not worthy of respect? According to you, since we made them, they cant have value.

Aaron11 · #8 18th March 2003, 12:54 PM

To quath:

The funniest one is, (not a quote but a paraphrase), living things can not come from non-living things. So try to explain evolution into that one...

When I say that science is over-rated. I dont mean I am smarter, more knowledgable in the sciences, or can disect a frog better than you or a professional scientist. What I am saying, is that we gain a false sense of security in science. We have seen science change views on things 180 degrees, often. Why put your total faith in a field of study that is everchanging? If you are going to do that, at least admit that it is not always true, it is just what we can make sense of what we have so far. Think of all the crazy ideas that have been passed around in the last 500 years in science...

To Angel75:

You think that we would CREATE clones? HAHAHA! No... You should read up on what cloning really is. It takes a living thing and manipulates. Does not create.

I guess you could say that YOU can create a person also (well with the help of a male's sex cell). If you think that cloning someone would be to create someone, you are just plain silly.

Hypothetical questions shouldn't have such silly conclusions written into them.

Received · #9 18th March 2003, 01:26 PM

Not to mention George Berkeley making fools out of the materialists by claiming they can't even prove such matter exists.

Blackhawk · #10 18th March 2003, 02:04 PM

Today at 12:38 AM Angel75 said this in Post #1

"Why do christians only think god can give them value?

If we found life on another planet, and (hypothetical) somehow it was proven god did not create them, would you think they are without value and therefore without basic rights and respect etc?"

I asked this in another thread,  and the person who replied only answered the first question ignoring the second...I asked them again to answer but didnt get one. Can any christians who agree with their answer that "yes in fact only god can give you value" answer the second one for me?? Yes i know it is far fetched, finding a race on another planet. Yes i know it is next to impossible to porve another god created that specific race, but humor me kay

The problem with your first question is that most if not all Christians here do not believe this will ever occur but the real problem is your second question.  I do not understand what you expect one to say who believes that only God can give one value.  It is kind of like asking an atheist how would your ethical theories change if you found proof that God exists.  The only answer would be something like well I would have to change my theories in the light of the understanding that God does exist.  See how this kind of question can only give real general answers that do not help much? 