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12th October 2006, 07:58 PM
|  | Major Dude
      
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Why does it exist?
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"And Rome has not preserved the Apostolic traditions unchanged, for it differs from Jerusalem as to the observances at Easter and as to other mysteries."- Firmillian |
16th October 2006, 01:15 AM
| | Major Dude
| | Join Date: 19th November 2002 Location: On The Prairie
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No interest?
Too revealing?
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"And Rome has not preserved the Apostolic traditions unchanged, for it differs from Jerusalem as to the observances at Easter and as to other mysteries."- Firmillian |
16th October 2006, 09:02 AM
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| | Join Date: 26th June 2003
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Reps: 14,171 (power: 26) | | Originally Posted by Rick Otto  No interest?
Too revealing?
No I don't see the use of discussing motives of an unknown forger 1200 years ago. Who was it, probably someone in the Church who thought they needed some documentation to back up a claim. The fact is that the the papal office existed before the 8th century and its authority was already accepted and exercised. When 'proof" was most need, this document was never used. When the Papal lands of Italy were given to the Pope by Pepin the Short, no mention of this document or claim was every mentioned. When the Pope requested that Pepin rescue Rome from the Lombards he never mentioned the Donation as authority. This would have been the opportune time to use thos claim if indeed the Pope was involved with this forgery.
The claim most anti-Catholics use this documentis that the Papal authority was some how a bog lie using this document. You would have to ignore the totality of history and writings of the ECF's up to that point to believe such a thing. It never stopped anyone before so do with it as you will.
__________________ Many who would willingly let themselves be nailed to a Cross before the astonished gaze of a thousand onlookers cannot bear with a christian spirit the pinpricks of each day! Think, then, which is the more heroic The Way by St Josemaria Escriva |
17th October 2006, 12:56 PM
| | Major Dude
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And that wasa a pretty pithy comment for not wanting to duscuss it!
Why would someone in the church think they needed this back up, if all was already on the "up & up"? Why didn't The Church take the lead in denouncing it on first sight? That would've been the right thing to do, don't you agree?
I'm thinkin' it might appear to be consistent with an already existing pattern of "bogus claims of authority" - according to "Revisionists" of course! lol
Heaven knows they look on the "totality of history" with a determinedly critical eye we couldn't expect from a "company man", eh?
I would expect more self-policing from an institution with the pedigree they claim, especialy in respect to a forgery of such magnitude. 
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"And Rome has not preserved the Apostolic traditions unchanged, for it differs from Jerusalem as to the observances at Easter and as to other mysteries."- Firmillian |
17th October 2006, 01:11 PM
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| | Join Date: 26th June 2003
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Reps: 14,171 (power: 26) | | Originally Posted by Rick Otto And that wasa a pretty pithy comment for not wanting to duscuss it!
Why didn't The Church take the lead in denouncing it on first sight? That would've been the right thing to do, don't you agree?
I would expect more self-policing from an institution with the pedigree they claim, especialy in respect to a forgery of such magnitude.
You are making the assumption they knew it was a forgery. There is no proof that they knowingly perpetuated the forgery. There was no reason to suspect it was since it was consistent with thier view of the papacy.
__________________ Many who would willingly let themselves be nailed to a Cross before the astonished gaze of a thousand onlookers cannot bear with a christian spirit the pinpricks of each day! Think, then, which is the more heroic The Way by St Josemaria Escriva |
17th October 2006, 01:28 PM
| | Major Dude
| | Join Date: 19th November 2002 Location: On The Prairie
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Reps: 4,996,069,040,501,551,104 (power: 4,996,069,040,501,580) | | | Ok, you're right. I assumed they knew.
So if they didn't recognize it as a forgery, and yet it was their authority being at issue, the obvious next question is why not?
Especialy when it wasn't needed & not used, as you say. That would've made it's appearance even more curious, even if it appeared to be in agreement with the agenda, like a third thumb, it should've stood out.
You offer as a possible reason, oversight in matters that appear agreeable to the established agenda.
Some see that as the basic modus operandi, agenda trumps legitamacy.
I think another reason they didn't have reason to suspect forgery, aside from it fitting their papal ambitions, was their lack of scholarship.
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"And Rome has not preserved the Apostolic traditions unchanged, for it differs from Jerusalem as to the observances at Easter and as to other mysteries."- Firmillian |
4th November 2006, 10:57 PM
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Reps: 1,993,897,128,709,277 (power: 1,993,897,128,721) | | Originally Posted by davidoffinland From Finland.
It was purported that a legal document called "Donation of Constantine" in which Constantine bestowed on Sylvester, the bishop of Rome (314-335) transferring to him his power, authority and the palace to the bishop of Rome. In short, granting the bishop his property and investing him with great spiritual power, and later civil power.
It is said that this document is a forgery because Constantine was made to speak 8th Ct Latin though he lived in the early 4th Ct. Also it was said that during these centuries Rome inserted in it her codes that no one was permitted to question its genuineness and those who refused to believe in it were burned.
Read it for yourself at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donation_of_Constantine
Or, google for more information.
In Him, david.
Pretty good research, but why didn't you let your readers know that it was the Catholic Church which discovered and reported this?
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4th November 2006, 11:06 PM
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"I have set before you life and death, a blessing and a curse; therefore choose life, that you and your descendants may live" -Deuteronomy 30:19 |
5th November 2006, 03:49 PM
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Reps: 44 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Metanoia02 Unless some evidence is presented to back up accusations, thisis pointless. I have still yet to find any benefit of your participation other then taking shots at the Catholic Church. But if that is the way you get your kicks, enjoy yourself.
Yup. |
4th August 2009, 12:09 PM
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http://www.christianforums.com/t7390875/#post52559787
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National Israel is cursed forever
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The Scroll, the Serpent, the Law and our Salvation
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Coloss 2:14 Blotting out the against us handwriting to the decrees which was hostile to us,
And has taken out of the midst, nailing it to the stauros | | |
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