Francis Shaeffer

They [secular humanists] have reduced Man to even less than his natural finiteness by seeing him only as a complex arrangement of molecules, made complex by blind chance. Instead of seeing him as something great who is significant even in his sinning, they see Man in his essence only as an intrinsically competitive animal, that has no other basic operating principle than natural selection brought about by the strongest, the fittest, ending on top. And they see Man as acting in this way both individually and collectively as society.
(Francis A. Schaeffer, A Christian Manifesto, Ch. 1)

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He is not silent. The reason we have the answer is because the infinite-personal God, the full Trinitarian God, has not been silent. He has told us who He is. Couch your concept of inspiration and revelation in these terms, and you will see how it cuts down into the warp and woof of modern thinking. He is not silent. That is the reason we know. It is because He has spoken. What has He told us? Has He told us only about other things? No, He has told us truth about Himself -- and because He has told us truth about Himself -- that He is the infinite-personal, triune God -- we have the answer to existence.
(Francis A. Schaeffer, He Is There and He Is Not Silent, Ch. 1)

Another Christian who did not understand secular humanism. How sad.

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Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich!

(Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: Prometheus)

Then please, explain to us what humanism is.

__________________
He is not silent. The reason we have the answer is because the infinite-personal God, the full Trinitarian God, has not been silent. He has told us who He is. Couch your concept of inspiration and revelation in these terms, and you will see how it cuts down into the warp and woof of modern thinking. He is not silent. That is the reason we know. It is because He has spoken. What has He told us? Has He told us only about other things? No, He has told us truth about Himself -- and because He has told us truth about Himself -- that He is the infinite-personal, triune God -- we have the answer to existence.
(Francis A. Schaeffer, He Is There and He Is Not Silent, Ch. 1)

3 : a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially : a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason

btw, this is the type he is addressing.

__________________
He is not silent. The reason we have the answer is because the infinite-personal God, the full Trinitarian God, has not been silent. He has told us who He is. Couch your concept of inspiration and revelation in these terms, and you will see how it cuts down into the warp and woof of modern thinking. He is not silent. That is the reason we know. It is because He has spoken. What has He told us? Has He told us only about other things? No, He has told us truth about Himself -- and because He has told us truth about Himself -- that He is the infinite-personal, triune God -- we have the answer to existence.
(Francis A. Schaeffer, He Is There and He Is Not Silent, Ch. 1)

There are people more suited to do that than me. But humanism teaches that humans have an intrinsic value - this simply does not derive from some divine creation.

Where would such a value come from, when we all are just "complex arrangement of molecules, made complex by blind chance", you might ask.

Well, something can be greated than the sum of its parts.


Considering that he talks about "an intrinsically competitive animal" and "[bringing] ... the strongest, the fittest... on top", he seems not to notice the "individual´s dignity and worth and self-realization".

__________________
Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich!

(Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: Prometheus)

Considering that he talks about "an intrinsically competitive animal" and "[bringing] ... the strongest, the fittest... on top", he seems not to notice the "individual´s dignity and worth and self-realization".

Ok. But what is it that gives the human being his worth?

__________________
He is not silent. The reason we have the answer is because the infinite-personal God, the full Trinitarian God, has not been silent. He has told us who He is. Couch your concept of inspiration and revelation in these terms, and you will see how it cuts down into the warp and woof of modern thinking. He is not silent. That is the reason we know. It is because He has spoken. What has He told us? Has He told us only about other things? No, He has told us truth about Himself -- and because He has told us truth about Himself -- that He is the infinite-personal, triune God -- we have the answer to existence.
(Francis A. Schaeffer, He Is There and He Is Not Silent, Ch. 1)

Here are a few definitions of "Humanism" from the American Humanist Association.

Humanism is a progressive lifestance that, without supernaturalism, affirms our ability and responsibility to lead meaningful, ethical lives capable of adding to the greater good of humanity.
• American Humanist Association

Humanism is a rational philosophy informed by science, inspired by art, and motivated by compassion. Affirming the dignity of each human being, it supports the maximization of individual liberty and opportunity consonant with social and planetary responsibility. It advocates the extension of participatory democracy and the expansion of the open society, standing for human rights and social justice. Free of supernaturalism, it recognizes human beings as a part of nature and holds that values—be they religious, ethical, social, or political—have their source in human experience and culture. Humanism thus derives the goals of life from human need and interest rather than from theological or ideological abstractions, and asserts that humanity must take responsibility for its own destiny.
• The Humanist Magazine

Humanism is a democratic and ethical lifestance which affirms that human beings have the right and responsibility to give meaning and shape to their own lives. It stands for the building of a more humane society through an ethics based on human and other natural values in a spirit of reason and free inquiry through human capabilities. It is not theistic, and it does not accept supernatural views of reality.
• The International Humanist and Ethical Union

http://www.americanhumanist.org/huma...efinitions.htm

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I think most secualr humanists would say that man has an intrinsic value but many others would then ask as Job_38 did why? And that is the question that I can't see an answer for in secualr humanism. The only answer I have ever really received is that "They just are!" or "man himself makes man have intrinsic value. Both do not make sense to me.

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Through the power of the Holy Spirit I am resolved to fully know Christ and to serve Him as Lord and Master of my life until I am with my Father in heaven which will be my gain.

To live is Christ and to die is gain. Phil. 2:10


That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Phil 3:10-11

Worth is given by someone that values. In theistic systems this is a divine being, in humanism it is humans.

Humans have a value, because humans value their life.

That humans would have no value, if God did not give it to them, would mean that humans were inable to give value themselves.

But this is clearly wrong: humans give value to all kinds of things all the time. So if humans can state that, say, art has a value - why would they be unable to say humans have a value.

__________________
Hier sitz´ich, forme Menschen
Nach meinem Bilde,
Ein Geschlecht, das mir gleich sei,
Zu leiden, zu weinen,
Zu genießen und zu freuen sich
Und dein nicht zu achten,
Wie ich!

(Johann Wolfgang von Goethe: Prometheus)

Why do christians only think god can give them value?

If we found life on another planet, and (hypothetical) somehow it was proven god did not create them, would you think they are without value and therefore without basic rights and respect etc?