Canaanite woman

hithesh · #1 19th September 2006, 09:36 PM

Matthew 15

What do you think Christ meant to tell us, in the way he rejected the cannanite woman's request to heal her daughter, and then agree to do it?

"Moving on from there Jesus walked by the Sea of Galilee, went up on the mountain"

I'm also trying to figure out who would occupy this region in the time of Christ. I'm thinking Cannanites, or other gentiles.... is this so?

lilymarie · #2 19th September 2006, 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by hithesh

Matthew 15

What do you think Christ meant to tell us, in the way he rejected the cannanite woman's request to heal her daughter, and then agree to do it?

"Moving on from there Jesus walked by the Sea of Galilee, went up on the mountain"

I'm also trying to figure out who would occupy this region in the time of Christ. I'm thinking Cannanites, or other gentiles.... is this so?

My take on Matthew 15 is that Jesus didn't want the Apostles to "know" who he was until that moment. I think at that moment they knew he was The Messiah, but they still didn't know about the crucifixtion at that point.

hithesh · #3 19th September 2006, 09:56 PM

Originally Posted by lilymarie

My take on Matthew 15 is that Jesus didn't want the Apostles to "know" who he was until that moment. I think at that moment they knew he was The Messiah, but they still didn't know about the crucifixtion at that point.

So you think, the healing miracle, was to provide a sign to the disciples so that they knew he was the messiah?

How would they "know" he is the messiah at that moment, particulary when the daughter was healed out of sight?

lilymarie · #4 19th September 2006, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by hithesh

Matthew 15

What do you think Christ meant to tell us, in the way he rejected the cannanite woman's request to heal her daughter, and then agree to do it?

"Moving on from there Jesus walked by the Sea of Galilee, went up on the mountain"

I'm also trying to figure out who would occupy this region in the time of Christ. I'm thinking Cannanites, or other gentiles.... is this so?

Originally Posted by hithesh

So you think, the healing miracle, was to provide a sign to the disciples so that they knew he was the messiah?

How would they "know" he is the messiah at that moment, particulary when the daughter was healed out of sight?

I think the apostles knew right then because of what Jesus said.

It doesn't go on to say, "and then the apostles knew Jesus was the Messiah"... but that's my take on the situation there.

Why else would the apostles have said... "send her away"? I think Jesus opened their eyes at 'that' moment about 'who' he really was. Not a Rabbi, not a teacher... he was the Savior of the world, the Messiah.

hithesh · #5 19th September 2006, 10:23 PM

. I want to show you the humor, and brilliance of Christ.

Then, Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They do not wash (their) hands when they eat a meal."

If the pharisees would have rebuked the disciples for dirty hands, how do you think they would have treated this gentile woman if she asked them to heal her daughter?

intricatic · #6 19th September 2006, 10:31 PM

Matthew 15 starts out on the topic of purity, His demonstration of what faith and true purity is contrasted to the physical act of purity itself.

Then he references Isaiah 29. He proceeds to say, in verse 13 of Matthew 15;

Matthew 15
13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
-----

Isaiah 29 also reciprocates;

Isaiah 29
17 Is it not yet a very little while
Till Lebanon shall be turned into a fruitful field,
And the fruitful field be esteemed as a forest?
18 In that day the deaf shall hear the words of the book,
And the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity and out of darkness.
19 The humble also shall increase their joy in the LORD,
And the poor among men shall rejoice
In the Holy One of Israel.
-----

Which pretty much sums up what happens with the Canaanite woman. It was a point regarding faith - the Canaanites were seen as Gentiles, and therefore unclean because their past was known as idolaters and they had commited human sacrifices, and child sacrifices to Molech. That stigma stuck with them even to Jesus' day. But here we see a woman from this social background being declared more faithful than even the blind Pharisees who cared only about the physical act of purity, and the traditions of the elders, but didn't care about the way they acted, or how they lived in private (see further in Isaiah 29 for a more clear message).

lilymarie · #7 19th September 2006, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by hithesh

. I want to show you the humor, and brilliance of Christ.

Then, Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, "Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They do not wash (their) hands when they eat a meal."

If the pharisees would have rebuked the disciples for dirty hands, how do you think they would have treated this gentile woman if she asked them to heal her daughter?

Well, the Pharisees or a particular priest commited the only unforgiveable sin of blaspheming The Holy Spirit by saying the miracles that Jesus performed were not from God but by Beelzebub. That is the unforgiveable sin.

I don't have scripture references in front of me and I'm eating dinner, but the Pharisees didn't like anything Jesus did that I can think of off the top of my head.

Anyhow, what is your take on Matthew 15 -- where the Cannanite woman's daughter is healed?

Sorry, I can't debate too well I'm eating dinner! Will be back soon!

hithesh · #8 19th September 2006, 11:04 PM

Originally Posted by intricatic

Matthew 15 starts out on the topic of purity, His demonstration of what faith and true purity is contrasted to the physical act of purity itself.
[left]Which pretty much sums up what happens with the Canaanite woman. It was a point regarding faith - the Canaanites were seen as Gentiles, and therefore unclean because their past was known as idolaters and they had commited human sacrifices, and child sacrifices to Molech. That stigma stuck with them even to Jesus' day. But here we see a woman from this social background being declared more faithful than even the blind Pharisees who cared only about the physical act of purity, and the traditions of the elders, but didn't care about the way they acted, or how they lived in private

In the thread "Faith and Reason", i set up some guidelines for this thread, and I requested if you would stay out of this debate, only out of kindness. Because this is a focused discussion, where I provide questions, and I ask for answers without a lengthy list of bible verses, or a cut and pasted interpretations (both are fine, but you have to bring them to us in your own words). The reason I ask, if you can sit out of this one, is because you tend to get ahead of yourself, and in the process disturb the cohesiveness of the discussion. I want a discussion of easy words, and plain to follow logic, and nothing less.

Your interpretation is correct of the cannanite woman, but that's not the question that i asked.

My question is why did Christ reject her at first, (kind of rudely I might add)?

(I'm looking for someone else to answer other than you, and please understand I only request this, out of the purest compassion. )

seanHayden · #9 19th September 2006, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by hithesh

Matthew 15

What do you think Christ meant to tell us, in the way he rejected the cannanite woman's request to heal her daughter, and then agree to do it?

"Moving on from there Jesus walked by the Sea of Galilee, went up on the mountain"

I'm also trying to figure out who would occupy this region in the time of Christ. I'm thinking Cannanites, or other gentiles.... is this so?

Excellent question.

The women is very clever, isn't she?

intricatic · #10 19th September 2006, 11:23 PM

I see, I'll stay off the thread then.

However, these are not cut and paste interpretations, they're my interpretations based on the Prophets clarification, and the clarification provided in the gospels. The answer to why He responded to her in the manner that He did isn't that hard to reason together, though.