Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
Long before I came to believe in God, I learned about evolution, geology, astrophysics, and cosmology. The answers I found then were satisfying to me; while not everything is explained, the things unexplained are the sorts of things I'd *expect* not to know yet, given a couple hundred years of looking at space from one tiny corner.
I see no reason to change them now; the beauty and majesty of the way in which things came to be is, in my mind, perfectly consistent with God's way of doing things.
I really end up with no opinion on how much God influenced things, or how often He intervened, in bringing life to be where it is. If the answer is "this is just what happens in a universe like this one", that's fine by me; it hardly dectracts from God's glory to say that He could produce this by setting a few physical constants and letting things progress as they must.
I think the question of creation and evolution is probably not an important one. What's important about Genesis, to me, is not the historical question - which, after all, has no effect whatsoever on my salvation now - but the information it gives us about how we relate to God, and what kind of entity He is.
It is much more important to understand that God sees His creation as "good" than it is to know how many minutes ago He started seeing it.
__________________ Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn I follow Christ; therefore I am To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39
Indeed, seebs. Some of the greatest Christian thinkers alive today are holders of evolutionary theory - Peter Kreeft, Richard Swinburne, and many others.
My brain does do a flip when I read in Genesis 1 that YOM is the word used, but in Exodus 20, in reference back to creation, it is not, which would mean literal six days.
But in view of the whole scheme of things, this is rather minor. I would really like to believe in the gap theory, and even evolutionary theory, but I still can't find the evidence - in a sort of reverse to what you are claiming - to live on, at least not from a biblical point of view. If there are any suggestions, I would be more than willing to accept them.
blessings,
John
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The brain is the most complex thing in the universe -- and it's right behind the nose. -- La Science des Reves
It is much more important to understand that God sees His creation as "good" than it is to know how many minutes ago He started seeing it.
Arent you contradicting yourself? If whatever God created was "good" (and He did say that) then why the need to evolve??? and become better? If the fish or monkey was "good", then why a total change into something else. If the monkey was "good" then its language wld have been good, so why the need to evolve into humans with better laguages.
The thoeries and principles of evolution so clearly contradict Biblical principles.
For eg, the whole silly idea of something evolving contradicts God's principle of a seed producing after its own kind. And if God is a God of order, not chaos, how in the world can one even say he used evolution??
It amazes me Christians can buy this false science at all.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
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Fine. Did God create volcanoes? Did God create the elements of environmental change? I say yes.
While the environment changes, only an organism that has the ability to change with the environment can survive. Otherwise it is unsuited for the changes in that environment. A poor creation would be one that was unable to adapt to new circumstances.
Populations do reproduce after their own kind--that kind is dynamic. There is no proto-cat giving birth to a cat--there are small changes that over great periods of time can shape a population so that individuals of that population can be significantly different from their ancestors.
--tibac
__________________ Each of us is a special creature, unlike any other. And yet we are all alike.
Today at 03:40 AM Received said this in Post #6 (http://www.christianforums.com/showt...109#post658109)
My brain does do a flip when I read in Genesis 1 that YOM is the word used, but in Exodus 20, in reference back to creation, it is not, which would mean literal six days.
But in view of the whole scheme of things, this is rather minor. I would really like to believe in the gap theory, and even evolutionary theory, but I still can't find the evidence - in a sort of reverse to what you are claiming - to live on, at least not from a biblical point of view. If there are any suggestions, I would be more than willing to accept them.
I seem to recall that Augustine's massive work on the meaning of Genesis doesn't really even deal with the idea of it being history.
Here's my observation: Jesus spoke in parables, a *lot*. Once, he used the example of the smallest of all seeds - the mustard seed.
Only it's *not*, see. Other plants have smaller seeds - not a whole lot, but definitely a few.
Either Jesus didn't know (a difficult proposition for the faith), or... Jesus spoke using *His* knowledge of the spiritual world, but *our* knowledge of the physical world. Understood this way, everything works.
Well, like Father, like Son. God, too, speaks to us in terms of how we see the world, how we understand it, and so on. Words and phrases and connotations are built on belief, not truth, but they're how we come to understand things. Long after we found out that the eyes of cats do not actually emit light, we can still refer to something as "glowing like the eyes of a cat at night".
Long after we found out that God made the world over billions of years, we can still refer to His resting "on the seventh day", and that has meaning.
Trying to make Genesis *actually* history wrecks it. Accepting that humans in Biblical times often accepted creation myths as literal is hardly surprising, and changes nothing. Jesus spoke to the people in terms of the simple understanding of the world they had, not in terms of science.
I just don't see this as that big a deal. The point of Genesis isn't "our God can make everything in only seven days", or "animals were made after plants". The core message, to me, is "there is something out there which caused the world to be, and it interacts with us on a personal basis".
That message is infinitely more important to Christianity than any detail of how the universe came to be in its present state.
When I was a kid, I had a bunch of books with name's like "Mother West Wind's How Stories", which would contain stories like "How the eagle got his crown". Every one of these stories was full of anthropomorphic animals, embodiments of principles, and the like... And they were good morality plays.
If I'd gotten caught up in trying to determine whether or not there was *actually* a time when eagles didn't have white feathers on their heads, but then the eagle was the bravest of birds and flew further than any other bird, and was rewarded, I would have MISSED THE POINT.
The Bible is best understood as silent on scientific issues. It's either silent, or wrong; I prefer to believe that it's silent.
Note that we had this same fight ~500-600 years ago on whether or not the earth moves. The Bible's endorsement of an unmoving earth is pretty solid - but it's not really making that claim, rather, it's using that primitive understanding as a way to communicate immutability to people.
__________________ Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn I follow Christ; therefore I am To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39
Arent you contradicting yourself? If whatever God created was "good" (and He did say that) then why the need to evolve??? and become better? If the fish or monkey was "good", then why a total change into something else. If the monkey was "good" then its language wld have been good, so why the need to evolve into humans with better laguages.
The thoeries and principles of evolution so clearly contradict Biblical principles.
For eg, the whole silly idea of something evolving contradicts God's principle of a seed producing after its own kind. And if God is a God of order, not chaos, how in the world can one even say he used evolution??
It amazes me Christians can buy this false science at all.
1Ti 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
Why do people grow gardens when they can get produce from a grocery store? Why did God mold Adam out of clay when He could have created him with a mere word? The answer is that there is a pleasure in growing something. The process is an end in itself as well as a means to an end.
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