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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #11  
Unread 5th February 2003, 08:46 PM
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Originally posted by tacoman528
And why, may I ask, do you think the atom does not collapse or the nucleus doesn't fly apart
The nucleus does not fly apart because of the strong nuclear force. There is a huge amount of energy locked into the nucleus of an atom - this is where the energy for nuclear reactors and bombs is obtained. This energy keeps protons and neutrons from flying apart.

The reasons why the atom does not collapse are comlicated. This whole question is what lead to the development of quantum physics in the first place.

The problem was that according to classical mechanics combined with Maxwell's laws on electronmagneticm the electron should spiral in towards the nucleus in a very short order.

The fact that this did not happen demonstrated that classical mechanics must be wrong in some fashion.

Quantum mechanics developed in this gap.

It is the most successfully tested theory in scientific history. It has solved the problem of the atom collapsing. As to the specific details, I am not a physicist so I cannot tell you, although I would recommend you read some popular physics books on quantum mechanics.
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  #12  
Unread 5th February 2003, 08:46 PM
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LOL. I love this thread. I suppose that radioactive decay comes from God getting the hiccups. (Or maybe leopards?). Since obviously Z particles haven't been "proven" either... This is fun. Who's next?

LOL better yet - nuclear fission a la Hiroshima... is that the use of tiny little levers to pry God's fingers apart?
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  #13  
Unread 5th February 2003, 08:46 PM
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"Made up by Atheists"?

Why do atheists always get the blame?

And how come because something hasnt been proven by science is it automatically gods doing?

Originally posted by tacoman528
Seems like a pretty good arguement to me. Like I said, gluons have never been observed, measured, or proven to exist. They were made up by Athiests to try to explain the phenomina of why the nuclei stay together. Gluons do not exist.

Tenek, you need to have paid more attention in Chemistry. A man named Rutherford thought the same as you do. But another man named Neils Bohr proved Rutherford wrong because of the orbitals and the behavior of electrons in their energy levels. Electrons do not follow a single path around the atom. They actually jump randomly around the atom, trying in vain to fill the positively charged atmosphere around the nucleus.

Try again
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  #14  
Unread 5th February 2003, 08:47 PM
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So you're saying it does, because it does. Doesn't sound too scientific to me.
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  #15  
Unread 5th February 2003, 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Jerry Smith
LOL. I love this thread. I suppose that radioactive decay comes from God getting the hiccups. (Or maybe leopards?). Since obviously Z particles haven't been "proven" either... This is fun. Who's next?
Leopards were what led to the development of Relativity. They run very fast relative to trees, and make trees look as though they are going backwards in time.

Leopards sure are important.

It's probably about time we worked out a way of proving they exist.
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  #16  
Unread 5th February 2003, 08:52 PM
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Originally posted by tacoman528
So you're saying it does, because it does. Doesn't sound too scientific to me.
No, I said that quantum mechanics explains it. Read up on quantum mechanics and you will find your answer. Don't expect it to be an easy one to understand, though.

 

What about the nucleus? Do you think that God "lets go" whenever humans want to set off a nuclear bomb?

Or do you think that maybe - just maybe - humans have found what holds the atom together and are able to release it? 
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Unread 5th February 2003, 09:15 PM
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Originally posted by tacoman528
Seems like a pretty good arguement to me. Like I said, gluons have never been observed, measured, or proven to exist. They were made up by Athiests to try to explain the phenomina of why the nuclei stay together. Gluons do not exist.

Tenek, you need to have paid more attention in Chemistry. A man named Rutherford thought the same as you do. But another man named Neils Bohr proved Rutherford wrong because of the orbitals and the behavior of electrons in their energy levels. Electrons do not follow a single path around the atom. They actually jump randomly around the atom, trying in vain to fill the positively charged atmosphere around the nucleus.

Try again
"Gluons do not exist"

"Subatomic particles do not exist"

"Atoms do not exist"

"Molecules do not exist"

Just because you haven't proved it exists doesn't mean that it doesn't. *Something* is doing it. Might as well call it a gluon.

Note that I said "according to classical mechanics". I could tell you about probability clouds but that's not really the point. I don't know how it works, but a) it does and b) I'm fairly sure that God has nothing to do with it.
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  #18  
Unread 5th February 2003, 09:36 PM
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Originally posted by tacoman528
So you're saying it does, because it does. Doesn't sound too scientific to me.
No, I'm saying I believe it to be the case, because I do not appear to be either collapsing to a point or expanding as a cloud of dust. I don't know *why* it's the case - yet - but so what? It's obviously true, and I have no idea how to go about answering the question of "why".
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  #19  
Unread 5th February 2003, 09:59 PM
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Classical physics tells us that if we think of an atom as a miniature solar system with electronic planets orbiting a nuclear sun, then it should not exist. The circling electrons SHOULD RADIATE AWAY their energy like microscopic radio antennas and spiral into the nucleus. To resolve this problem, physicists had to introduce a set of mathematical rules, called quantum mechanics, to describe what happens. Quantum theory endows matter and energy with both wave and particle-like characteristics. It also restrains electrons to particular orbits, or energy levels, so they cannot radiate energy unless they jump from one orbit to another.

Measuring the spectral lines of atoms verifies that quantum theory is correct. Atoms appear to emit or absorb packets of light, or photons, with a wavelength that exactly coincides with the difference between its energy levels as predicted by quantum theory.
taken from this: http://www.harmonology.com.au/Puthoff.html

It goes on to explain that this answer does not convince people because they want to know WHY in quantum mechanics the atom does not radiate away energy.

But then it shows that even this question looks as though it is about to be answered.

 

I should add that your initial question seemed to indicate that the positive force of the proton would drag the electron in to the nucleus, and collapse the atom that way. That is not what would happen - we do not crash into the sun even though we are attracted to the sun by gravity.

The "collapse of the atom" that ended the classical model was all to do with the Maxwell's laws of electromagnetism.
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  #20  
Unread 5th February 2003, 10:01 PM
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None of you seem to know the answer. So I will have to properly inform you. If anyone here thinks they know the answer, then say it. In Colossians 1:17, it says that Jesus holds all things together. Its the only thing that makes sense. Think about it. You don't know the answer, yet the answer is before you. It is Jesus that holds everything together. I've given you my answer which is completely logical. For some of you, the best answer I've heard yet is, "Nothing Exists at all."

C'mon, people
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