Creationists attack academic freedom

kaotic · #11 3rd February 2003, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by lucaspa
The NY Times has a story today showing how creationists are willing to intrude on the freedom of a professor to write honest letters of recommendation:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/03/ed...html?tntemail1

An associate professor of biology at Texas Tech in Lubbock, TX, posted on his webpage that he would not write a letter of recommendation for any student to grad school or med school unless that student accepted the evolution of humans.  His reasons, posted at the website, were simple: any student that refused to accept the evidence was not qualified to pursue studies in fields dependent on biology.

A creationist student, who has not even asked for a letter of recommendation, has complained and there is now a Justice Dept. probe of the professor for "discrimination".

Creationists are threatening to sue.  Apparently, they feel they can compel a professor to write a favorable letter of recommendation and dictate his opinions on the competency of students.

So, the professor, by being honest and posting his standards publicly so that students who won't accept evolution can seek other letters of recommendation from professors more friendly to their views, is now to be persecuted for that honesty.

That is really crazy.

Arikay · #12 3rd February 2003, 03:59 PM

Why didnt I think of it before. Im sitting on a gold mine here. I have scripture suggesting that the earth is flat. Any teacher that says I cant graduate until I say that that for a fact the earth is round, I will sue for infringing on my rights to believe the christian religion.
Hmm, I wonder what I can do with all that money I get from them?

nephilimiyr · #13 3rd February 2003, 04:08 PM

And yet, it was used as a way to dismiss the original claims; now that you know it's not an NY Times claim, but a fairly well-researched fact, I will assume that you're accepting the original claim.

Yes I used it as a way to dismiss the claim as being the whole true story. I suppose with all the other NUMEROUS sourses provided latter there probably is validity to the story.

Should I take it that you never dismissed a story from a sourse you didn't think reputable.

lucaspa · #14 3rd February 2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by nephilimiyr
WOW! Such animosity Rufus, am I that much of an adversary to you? 5 links, gee do you have anymore?

The opinion in my post was directed toward the NY Times not you or your opinions!

I beg to differ. Your post was "And we all know how highly the NY Times think of creationists!

Linking a story from the National Enquirer will gain much more credibility."

It was also directed at me for posting a link with such low "credibility" as the NY Times.

Basically, Neph, instead of trying to deal with the issues you performed an ostrich and decided I had posted a fraud. 

Thanks, Rufus, for showing Neph that the story was not a fraud.

RufusAtticus · #15 3rd February 2003, 04:13 PM

Here is the professor's autobiography.

I instead chose to enter a Roman Catholic order of teaching brothers (the Brothers of the Christian Schools, known in the U.S. simply as the Christian Brothers). As a young brother, I majored in biology and minored in religious studies at St. Mary's College, Moraga, California. I graduated magna cum laude in 1977 and was assigned by my religious superiors to teach at La Salle High School in Pasadena, California, where I remained for 4 years, teaching various courses in biology and religion and earning a California Secondary Teaching Credential.

lucaspa · #16 3rd February 2003, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by Morat
I found this delightful:

LOL!

What a delightful letter of recommendation!  Yep, that is about what I would write for that student, and all future students,  were I Dr. Dini and lose the lawsuit.  Really impressive recommendation, isn't it? I'm sure Mr. Spradling will get into a lot of medical schools with that recommendation.  (let's see, where is that tongue-in-cheek smiley?)

lucaspa · #17 3rd February 2003, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by nephilimiyr
Should I take it that you never dismissed a story from a sourse you didn't think reputable.

I have been very skeptical of stories from sources that repeatedly have shown themselves to print false stories, i.e. the National Enquirer and the ICR.  However, I have never totally dismissed one without at least looking at it to see for myself.

This is quite embarrassing to you, isn't it Neph?  It shows creationists in their true light and doesn't allow you to gloss over their tyrannical agenda.  Do you really want to live in a society where the government can dictate to you what your professional opinion is about a colleague and that colleague's competence?  Let creationists gain political power and that is exactly what you get.

Dini laid out very honestly what his criteria for a letter of recommendation is, and why, professionally, acceptance of evolution as a valid scientific theory was so important.  The potential medical student cannot offer his/her patients adequate medical care without it.  Are you so wedded to creationism that you are willing to tolerate incompetent medical care?

joelazcr · #18 3rd February 2003, 06:28 PM

If evolution is so important to medical care, why don't the medical
school's teach it. It's not that they are unaware of evolution, it's just
that it is useless for medical care.

Does this mean that everything else being equal, a creationist in the
medical profession is less compentent than a non creationist?

How does natural selection and large scale evolution benefit medical
care anyway? Does anyone have any examples?

Medicine was doing fine before Darwin. What great advances occurred
because of the evolutionary thinking? Aren't humans beyond the reach
of natural selection anyway?

notto · #19 3rd February 2003, 08:34 PM

Originally posted by joelazcr

Medicine was doing fine before Darwin. What great advances occurred
because of the evolutionary thinking? Aren't humans beyond the reach
of natural selection anyway?

Are you suggesting that medicine hasn't improved in 125 years?

Antibiotic resistance (and how to deal with it) only makes sense in light of evolution.

Using certain animals more medical research only makes sense in light of evolution.

A cure for AIDS will most likely be directly linked to evolution, either of immunity in a human, or by understanding the evolution of the virus.

As far as medical schools, you do realize that medical school requirements require ALOT of biology, right?

fragmentsofdreams · #20 3rd February 2003, 11:12 PM

If a professor believes that a "scientific explaination for the origin of human beings" is important for medical students, it is his perogative. If that is his belief, it is foolish of Mr. Spradling to ask a recommendation from him. Forcing him to write a recommendation is even more foolish because nobody will give a good recommendation under coersion. Does Mr. Spradling think that medical schools want students who need to resort to legal action to get recommendations?