Genesis 1 in the Hebrew

Micaiah · #11 28th January 2003, 11:44 AM

G'day s0uljah,
It's nice to know someone can make some sense of the things we post LOL.

Chris†opher Paul · #12 28th January 2003, 11:57 AM

Heh heh.

nephilimiyr · #13 28th January 2003, 01:38 PM

Micaiah

How do we explain how the universe sprang into existence at the word of God? According to Scripture, our understanding of this is based on faith.

Your interpretation is based on speculation. The views promoted are not supported by the plain teaching of these verses. The Hebrews passage reinforces the teaching that our universe was created spontaneously as a result of God's word. God did not form it from a previous creation.

The Hebrew word for beginning used in Genesis 1:1 is 'reshish' according to Strong's concordance. This word is also used to denote beginning in 17 other places:

Gen 10:10; 49:3
Deut 11:12; 21:17
Job 8:7; 42:12
Ps 111:10
Prov1:7; 8:22; 17;14
Eccl 7:8
Isa 46:10
Jer 26:1; 27:1; 28:1; 49:34
Mic 1:13

Study these verses. The meaning is clearly beginning in each.

In another thread I have given other reasons why this view doesn't match the clear teaching of Scripture. I'll give you the link if you're interested.

Everything you wrote there Micaiah is from a misunderstanding of what I'm saying. I do believe God created everything spontaneously by his word. But this doesn't mean that this original event was anywhere close chronologically to the current world we live in today or even that time moves in the same way as it now does.

The Hebrews 11:3 passage is I think clear in saying that God didn't make something from nothing but rather from invisible things, there is a difference. This passage presents the idea both of creation through arranging materials, as well as the idea of a carpenter working with wood, as something quite easy, a simple task.

Because the interpretation I go by is different than yours means my interpretation is speculation? Perhaps the plain teachings you go by is the real speculation? You claim like you know for sure that what I'm going by is speculation and why is that? Perhaps because it goes against what you've been told or what your Strong's concordance tell's you? Well, we shall see.

The actual word penned by Moses in Genesis 1:1 is bereshyth (replace the y with an i, I did this so it wouldn't be asterisked out) different spelling than your Strong's word but I believe the same. Every scholar that has tried to translate the Hebrew has struggled with the first verse in Genesis. This is because of this word.

The noun reshyth always, always needs a modifier in order for it's actual meaning to be seen. The "be" in Genesis 1:1 is more often used to denote previously.

 For instance in Job 42:12 (one of the verses you posted) reads, So the lord blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning(reshyth). To read this as the actual beginning of Job makes no sense. It's odvious from the story that reshyth is refering to the beginning of the story covered in the book, prior to Satan testing him and not of his birth.

Now Proverbs 8:22, The lord possessed me in the beginning(reshyth) of his way, before his works of old. If you want to assume that reshyth here is talking about an actual beginning you must also assume that God has also had a beginning. Of course that wouldn't be true so we must assume that the beginning before his works means simply, before what can be seen in this age was created, not before God.

In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning can be seen to mean not in the beginning of all times or things but the start of mankind or the current frame of history. Thus the earth was molded and reformed at a specific time.

Yes I'm interested for those links Micaiah, please post them! Thank you

 

Chris†opher Paul · #14 28th January 2003, 03:00 PM

Thus the earth was molded and reformed at a specific time.

Yes this makes sense. The Bible says that the earth was a shapeless mass at the time of Genesis...not poofed into existence from nothing at that time.

Micaiah · #15 28th January 2003, 08:18 PM

Concise Oxford Dictionary:
' beginning - the time or place at which anything begins'

There is no mention of a previous civilisation on earth in the first few verses of Genesis. That is speculation. We know that God spoke the heavens and earth into existence, and that on the first day earth was without form and void.

Jerry Smith · #16 28th January 2003, 08:27 PM

Concise Oxford Dictionary:
' beginning - the time or place at which anything begins'

I hate to butt in, but I don't believe that an english dictionary's definition of an english word will have much to say about neph's idea, since his is based on a Hebrew word, and its definition.

JohnR7 · #17 28th January 2003, 08:29 PM

Originally posted by Micaiah
I've heard this one somewhere before. Doesn't this interpretation also teach that since man was made alive after God breathed into Him, a child is not alive or fully human until it takes its first breath.

Yes, I have heard him say that. Then he acted like he was going to duck and run for cover, so he did not go into it to much. It must not be a very popular teaching. But he does not preach what people want to hear, he preaches what God gives to him.

lucaspa · #18 28th January 2003, 08:37 PM

Originally posted by JohnR7 Genesis 1:14-16
    And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: [15] And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. [16] And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Moses is not talking about God making the Sun, Moon & Stars. He is just talking about them appearing in the firmament.

Notice the bolded words of your quote from Genesis.  Seems you are going against the plain meaning here John.  Want to tell us how you justify this?

Sixteen Billion years of time could have passed before the Bible even begins. But for some reason, God could have decided to destroy everything and start all over again. Only He did not destroy the record of the life that was here, before recorded history began.

And where is that gap in the narrative?

Micaiah · #19 28th January 2003, 08:38 PM

Originally posted by nephilimiyr
Micaiah
In Genesis 1:1 in the beginning can be seen to mean not in the beginning of all times or things but the start of mankind or the current frame of history. Thus the earth was molded and reformed at a specific time.

Yes I'm interested for those links Micaiah, please post them! Thank you

 

Link as Requested

See post 45 and 78.

Also consider the passage in Exedus 20

8"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Scripture clearly asserts here that God made the heavens and earth in six days.

Micaiah · #20 28th January 2003, 08:45 PM

Originally posted by JohnR7
Yes, I have heard him say that. Then he acted like he was going to duck and run for cover, so he did not go into it to much. It must not be a very popular teaching. But he does not preach what people want to hear, he preaches what God gives to him.

Not sure what or who you refer to hear. Clarify if possible.

Is this what you also believe?