| One Bread, One Body - Catholic A forum open to Christians to discuss various Catholic beliefs and issues. |  | | 
21st August 2006, 12:26 PM
|  | I'm an ultra-traditionalist, run for your life ;) 31 
| | Join Date: 30th October 2003 Location: Mesa, Arizona
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Reps: 2,161,877,158,700,854 (power: 2,161,877,158,721) | | | Teenagers and Church Music: What Do They Really Think? ...it's older people's idea of cool, of what "the young people" might find appealing. And, Faithstream has the (Missouri-Lutheran) study to prove it ( H/T Curt Jester)
Here excerpts
What was involved in your research?
Teenagers from Massachusetts to California (numbering 479) were asked for their input on this topic. The students were asked to imagine themselves in a worship service and to determine if each of the 40 musical excerpts they were hearing sounded "appropriate for church," as they knew it.
Since 34 different religious bodies were represented, including Roman Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, mainline Protestant, non-denominational and Pentecostal churches, world religions, and cultic groups, the students' experiences with church services were diverse.
As you prepared your survey, what results did you expect?
First, I expected that the music deemed appropriate would, like their church affiliations, be diverse. Second, knowing that the vast majority of teenagers enjoy listening to rock and pop music, I also expected that those styles would be identified as appropriate for church by their standards.
What did you learn?
Surprisingly, neither of my predictions proved true. Across this diverse group of students there was clear agreement about the kind of music that was "right for church": it was
* choral music, not instrumental
* sung by a group of singers rather than a soloist
* characterized by a simple musical texture and understandable text.
Musical examples reminiscent of popular styles (rock, jazz, country) were overwhelmingly rejected as church music. The example rated most appropriate was a male choir singing a four-part version of Psalm 98 (The Lutheran Hymnal 667!). The piece considered least appropriate was the loud and rhythmic "Midnight Oil," performed by the Christian rock group Petra.
...
The traditional choral sound was given its highest ratings by the Catholic and Lutheran students in the study.
What does that information tell you?
What it says is that the kind of music that is heard in a church service seems to become the accepted norm for that context. Contrary to expectations, these representative teenagers do not bring to the church service their own musical preferences (e.g., rock and pop music) as the right music for that occasion.
Rather, they tend to accept as appropriate for that context the music that the church has already put in place, whatever that music may be. While they liked rock music and thought it was the right music for some times and places in their lives, they didn't believe that the church service was that time and place.
...
They apparently had clear opinions regarding the fittingness of musical styles for particular occasions, including that of the church service.
....
Interestingly, the unchurched students gave their lowest ranking of appropriateness to contemporary Christian music. Several wrote on their survey forms "This sounds like my parents' music!" http://closedcafeteria.blogspot.com/
__________________ We are the Church Militant NOT the Church Tolerant. "The law of our forefathers should still be held sacred: let there be no innovation: keep to what has been handed down." ~ Benedict XV | 
21st August 2006, 12:36 PM
|  | Uppity modernist egalitarian 38 
| | Join Date: 10th December 2005
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Reps: 204,782,582,598,469,120 (power: 204,782,582,598,490) | | | Interestingly - we have been going to the Lifeteen Mass here. It is actually the most reverent (yes, really) and the gang who does the music actually does some of it in Latin, and will not change the words of the Mass. (A few are certified as Advanced Catechists, and know that changing stuff is a big no-no)
Timmy said to me last week- "You know mom, I really think that many people come to this Mass because they want to hear the cool music, and not becuase they are excited to receive Jesus." I was blown away. I have never expressed anything like this out loud in front of him ( I try very hard to teach them what is right in Mass, without griping or bad mouthing the priest or the Mass).
__________________ "Spanking is simply another form of terrorism. It teaches the victims that might makes right, and that problems can be solved through the use of violence by the strong against the weak." | 
21st August 2006, 12:43 PM
|  | Senior Contributor
 | | Join Date: 27th July 2003 Location: USA
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Reps: 860,607 (power: 878) | | Originally Posted by RoseofLima Interestingly - we have been going to the Lifeteen Mass here. It is actually the most reverent (yes, really) and the gang who does the music actually does some of it in Latin, and will not change the words of the Mass. (A few are certified as Advanced Catechists, and know that changing stuff is a big no-no)
Timmy said to me last week- "You know mom, I really think that many people come to this Mass because they want to hear the cool music, and not becuase they are excited to receive Jesus." I was blown away. I have never expressed anything like this out loud in front of him ( I try very hard to teach them what is right in Mass, without griping or bad mouthing the priest or the Mass).
In my area, the Lifeteen Masses are the most reverent as well. (Lifeteen bashing is trendy in certain circles) I know some people hate praise and worship music, but you know what? I'd rather hear praise and worship and be surrounded by people singing, praying the Mass, and excited about their faith then listen to traditional hymns where no one participates. Some people probably do go to hear the music, but hey, its better than not going at all and maybe God will work in that. Its kind of like lapsed Catholics who continue to give up something for Lent. It doesn't really make sense, but something in them knows the truth and God can work in their repsonse to Him, however feeble. Yeah, the best reason to go to Mass is not because you like the music. But maybe there's something in those people that knows we were created to praise and glorify God.
With respect specifically to the study, the wording is interesting. The use of "appropriate" as an adjective could be interpreted in many ways. My guess is most teenagers interpreted it as "what sounds the most like 'Church music'?"
__________________ Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. | 
21st August 2006, 12:48 PM
|  | I'm an ultra-traditionalist, run for your life ;) 31 
| | Join Date: 30th October 2003 Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 11,307
Blessings: 1,067,288
Reps: 2,161,877,158,700,854 (power: 2,161,877,158,721) | | | If people are not singing, it doesn't mean they are not participating, personally I find the interior participation far more important than the exterior participation.
__________________ We are the Church Militant NOT the Church Tolerant. "The law of our forefathers should still be held sacred: let there be no innovation: keep to what has been handed down." ~ Benedict XV | 
21st August 2006, 12:54 PM
|  | Senior Contributor
 | | Join Date: 27th July 2003 Location: USA
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Reps: 860,607 (power: 878) | | Originally Posted by ProCommunioneFacior If people are not singing, it doesn't mean they are not participating, personally I find the interior participation far more important than the exterior participation.
I agree- "active participation" does not mean one has to be physically doing something. But when people are picking their nails, reading their bulletin, and organizing their purse, I don't really think they're experiencing infused contemplation and mystical prayer.
Further, we are bodily, sacramental people. We use our bodies to worship. Its difficult for yuour average parishioner to arose interior devotion without an exterior act. That's why St. Thomas emphasized the need for vocal prayer. Its why we kneel at the consecration. Could you be just as reverent in your heart while sitting in the pew? Yeah, but that's missing the point.
It should go without saying that interior participation is more important than exterior, but it should also be noted that one does not preclude the other and the two working in tandem is most efficient. We are't souls trapped in the prison of a body. We are a body-soul composite.
__________________ Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. | 
21st August 2006, 12:59 PM
|  | I'm an ultra-traditionalist, run for your life ;) 31 
| | Join Date: 30th October 2003 Location: Mesa, Arizona
Posts: 11,307
Blessings: 1,067,288
Reps: 2,161,877,158,700,854 (power: 2,161,877,158,721) | | Originally Posted by Filia Mariae
I agree- "active participation" does not mean one has to be physically doing something. But when people are picking their nails, reading their bulletin, and organizing their purse, I don't really think they're experiencing infused contemplation and mystical prayer.
Further, we are bodily, sacramental people. We use our bodies to worship. Its difficult for yuour average parishioner to arose interior devotion without an exterior act. That's why St. Thomas emphasized the need for vocal prayer. Its why we kneel at the consecration. Could you be just as reverent in your heart while sitting in the pew? Yeah, but that's missing the point.
It should go without saying that interior participation is more important than exterior, but it should also be noted that one does not preclude the other and the two working in tandem is most efficient. We are't souls trapped in the prison of a body. We are a body-soul composite.
The few traditional parishes that I've been to, people sitting in the pew picking their nails is not what I have observed. Rather what I see is people kneeling, praying, genuflecting, beating their chests on the mea culpa, following along, praying the Mass with their missals, and some sing.
__________________ We are the Church Militant NOT the Church Tolerant. "The law of our forefathers should still be held sacred: let there be no innovation: keep to what has been handed down." ~ Benedict XV | 
21st August 2006, 01:06 PM
|  | Senior Contributor
 | | Join Date: 27th July 2003 Location: USA
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Reps: 860,607 (power: 878) | | Originally Posted by ProCommunioneFacior The few traditional parishes that I've been to, people sitting in the pew picking their nails is not what I have observed. Rather what I see is people kneeling, praying, genuflecting, beating their chests on the mea culpa, following along, praying the Mass with their missals, and some sing.
I wasn't speaking specifically to Tridentine Mass parishes, which I don't believe can be fairly compared to other parishes, because the people there come specifically because they have that Mass and are not a representative sample of an average group of Catholics. Many people drive great distances to go to a Tridentine Mass- obviously they aren't going to take a nap when they get there. I was speaking more generally about Lifeteen Masses compared to other Novus Ordo Masses. Of the Tridentine Masses I've been to, yes most people do pay attention and I would assume are praying, though I see some doing things like praying the rosary during Mass which is unfortunate.
__________________ Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. | 
21st August 2006, 01:28 PM
|  | ಠ_ಠ 23 
| | Join Date: 31st March 2003
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Reps: 48,704 (power: 61) | | | As a teenager I can truly say that this is correct, if they started playing contemporary music at Mass I would be enraged. At my old school (kindergarten - 8th grade) we had Mass every Wednesday, and towards the end they started getting really weird. Awesome God was a common song, and don't even get me started on "Lord, I lift your name on high!" where you were expected to do the hand motions DURING mass. (One of the hand motions, done when they say "Lord I life your name on high!" is the "raising the roof" motion, so you are starting mass and 500 teenagers are there raising the roof. I'm all for the belief that singing music during mass is a form of prayer, but that's just WRONG. And then they tried to make it so that if you didn't sing you were some non-God-loving person (I didn't sing, but I loved God more than the kids in my class who sang and called Christ "The Lard")
__________________ ... and thus it was that he humbled himself, obediently accepting even death, death on a cross!
Because of this, God highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name above every other name So that at Jesus' name
every knee must bend in the heavens,
on the earth,
and under the earth, and every tongue proclaim to the glory of God the Father: JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!
Philippians 2:6-11 | 
21st August 2006, 01:47 PM
|  | Senior Contributor
 | | Join Date: 27th July 2003 Location: USA
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Reps: 860,607 (power: 878) | | Originally Posted by Number 81 As a teenager I can truly say that this is correct, if they started playing contemporary music at Mass I would be enraged. At my old school (kindergarten - 8th grade) we had Mass every Wednesday, and towards the end they started getting really weird. Awesome God was a common song, and don't even get me started on "Lord, I lift your name on high!" where you were expected to do the hand motions DURING mass. (One of the hand motions, done when they say "Lord I life your name on high!" is the "raising the roof" motion, so you are starting mass and 500 teenagers are there raising the roof. I'm all for the belief that singing music during mass is a form of prayer, but that's just WRONG. And then they tried to make it so that if you didn't sing you were some non-God-loving person (I didn't sing, but I loved God more than the kids in my class who sang and called Christ "The Lard")
Why is this music "wrong"? Note, I'm not asking why you don't like it. Personal preference is everyone's right. But why do you label it objectively wrong?
__________________ Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner. | 
21st August 2006, 02:23 PM
|  | Weisenheimer
 | | Join Date: 30th August 2003
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Reps: 52,116 (power: 78) | | | What I think is interesting about this study is not the conclusion that is drawn from it, but the statement that adults, while they think they know what teenagers like or want, really shouldn't be so presumptuous. I often heard middle-aged CCD teachers say that they'd been doing youth ministry for 25 years and therefore they know what teenagers want. My experience, having been less than that many years since I was a teenager, was that those people were completely wrong.
God uses all things for his glory, and I believe that the mediocre catechesis I received, the culture in which I grew up, the circumstances of our time has led me, and will lead others into deeper communion with Jesus Christ and his Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
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