Teenagers and Church Music: What Do They Really Think?

Servus Iesu · #41 22nd August 2006, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by Veritas

Not having read the whole thread, I don't know if this point was made. One of the things modern Evangelical churches try to do is attract young people by rejecting liturgy and liturgical music in favour of free-flowing services focused on the pastor's "message" and contemporary music performed by bands on a stage.

By and large, they seem to be successful in attracting these younger folks, but what isn't clear is what is really going on in their faith life. Just because you get them in the door and rocking out to music they can "relate" to, doesn't mean they are really hearing the gospel and learning to live a life of holiness. Liturgical churches don't have a guarantee on that either, but there is something to be said about reverent worship and liturgical music.

Put another way, is the Church really affecting a transformation in the lives of the people, or are the people affecting a transformation in the life of the Church?

Veritas · #42 22nd August 2006, 02:48 PM

Originally Posted by ufonium2

I don't think you can assign any meaning to the fact that kids put their hands in the air during certain songs. They know that's what you do during that song, so they do it. And they all do it, at the same time, because they are kids, and kids fear nothing more than the possibility of sticking out in a crowd.

Having your hands in the air makes it physically impossible to clean your nails or read your bulletin, but it definitely doesn't prevent kids from looking around to see how everyone else is positioning their hands or who the girl they like is standing with, or thinking about what they're having for lunch or who is going to win the game this afternoon.

Regarding the music itself, it's not just a matter of individual taste. For instance, my church is covered with icons. There are rules about iconography, and iconographers have to be well educated and have their work approved by the bishop before they can write icons. What if that wasn't the case, and some random person decided to cover the church with stick figures of the saints? Is it not possible to objectively say that those stick figures are bad art, and have no place depicting the saints on the walls of a church?

Music has objective rules too. Dissonances need to be prepared, chords should progress according to some reasonable scheme, voices shouldn't cross, etc. These are descriptive rules, based on what the Western human ear, tempered by constant exposure to European languages, finds to be consonant. When a piece of music breaks those rules, it sounds bad. Maybe just a little bad, and maybe you can't put your finger on what exactly bothered you about that chord or that melody. But you know something is off, and a music theorist could tell you what that is. It's just like how I couldn't cite for you specific rules about contrast in art, but I am bothered when important features don't stand out like they should.

My point is that pop music in general, and contemporary Christian music in particular, is generally not very well crafted. It breaks a lot of rules, because the folks who write it never bothered to understand them. And it covers these shortcomings in hand motions, emotional lyrics, flashy instrumentation and special effects.

We should give our best to God. Composers literally dedicated their lives, often becoming monks and nuns, to composing the old music to the glory of God. And I have no problem saying that the music they created is objectively, quantifiably a better offering to God than 95% of contemporary Christian music.

To sum up: most contemporary Christian music dumbs down the liturgy and water's down the faith. It doesn't challenge the intellect or the soul in any long-term meaningful way. Many Evangelical's have never had much exposure to excellent liturgical music and when they do, they're blown away by the beauty and how it lifts them up.

Virgil the Roman · #43 23rd August 2006, 12:44 AM

Originally Posted by ProCommunioneFacior

I agree

I used to be good friends with Matt Maher, still listen to his CD's every once in a while

Amen. I just thought of something the other day. Most contemporary music is a happy go lucky type of tune, and it's great to listen to when your life is going swell. But at every Mass there is a person who lost a loved one or who had a really tough week, and I don't know about you, but for me if I heard the "Happy Dance"(yes there is such a song which includes dancing ) song during that time, I might be liable in hitting someone.

Having said that, Gregorian Chant, I think, is fitting for a person at any stage in their life, the simplistic, awe-inspiring beauty of the Gregorian Chant I think is universal in its appeal.

I spent all of last night, listening to my Gregorian Chant CD's and following along using the music in my Liber Usualis (so I can develop a better sense of how to sing it), I never slept better in my life after doing so, the joyful solemn peace in my soul was indescribable. Not to mention the fact that I was singing songs which were written by St. Thomas Aquinas or singing the Propers of the Mass (which is singing the Mass(Psalms)).

What luck, I had bought a cd of Gregorian Chants, last week, they're the most peaceful songs and sounds I've ever heard. I'd really love it if we played them, at mass instead of these new contempary hymns. Some trained singers would have to chant the Gregorian Chant, because I know I can't sing, and many of my folks can't sing either.

alkan · #44 23rd August 2006, 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenonthecross

What luck, I had bought a cd of Gregorian Chants, last week, they're the most peaceful songs and sounds I've ever heard. I'd really love it if we played them, at mass instead of these new contempary hymns. Some trained singers would have to chant the Gregorian Chant, because I know I can't sing, and many of my folks can't sing either.

This is the important bit. You acknowlege the fact you 'can't sing' but many people who run the music wouldn't, and I bet you're a far better singer than you believe.

It's torture listening to someone who can't really play try to getthrough a Bernadette Farrel hymn or some other modern stuff. Most painful in the slow hymns.

I can't sing, but I can play the flute, so I do this at my church where the size of congregation and type of music group allows flute to enhance the music. I'd love to play the organ, but I'm simply not good enough yet to learn four hymns just before Mass, and play them to an acceptable standard. I will keep practicing. The important thing is that I realise my limits, even while I try to increase my ability.

ProCommunioneFacior · #45 23rd August 2006, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Ravenonthecross

because I know I can't sing, and many of my folks can't sing either.

I can't sing either, however, the choir director has told me to stick to a small range (I'm a Bass) and try to blend my voice with the others (which in Gregorian Chant you are supposed to anyways). I think that Gregorian Chant is conducive to those who have bad voices as long as they are devoted to getting the technique down (which just takes some practice, I am practicing every night now on my own with my own CDs). It especially helps when there are at least a couple of people in the choir who are experienced Gregorian Chanters, then you can listen to them and follow them, it helps you to develop the technique and to help you what the sight reading means.

Virgil the Roman · #46 24th August 2006, 01:14 AM

I suppose that, could be an idea, but if I would have to do it, it'd have to wait for awhile, first I gotta find the Tridentine Mass church, I found, I found the town, don't know where it is, though? I just know it's somewhere up by my college. Any folks know where Saegerstown, Pa is?, by any chance?

Servus Iesu · #47 24th August 2006, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by Ravenonthecross

I suppose that, could be an idea, but if I would have to do it, it'd have to wait for awhile, first I gotta find the Tridentine Mass church, I found, I found the town, don't know where it is, though? I just know it's somewhere up by my college. Any folks know where Saegerstown, Pa is?, by any chance?

Mapquest it.

Addaperle · #48 24th August 2006, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Filia Mariae

I'd rather hear praise and worship and be surrounded by people singing, praying the Mass, and excited about their faith then listen to traditional hymns where no one participates.

As someone who works fulltime in Youth Ministry in the UK, specifically in Catholic schools, one of the biggest grips the young people I meet have is with the music played at Mass... and to be honest, attending Mass in a different parish every other week (as it gets when we're away on Mission), I'm beginning to see the point. We've "performed" Praise and Worship music for them, and they've loved it, but we've also led them in praise and worship and seen what an amazing way of meeting God many of them have found it (and this was in a school of 1000+ pupils, and only a handful didn't participate at all)... But by the same standards, young people who have an appreciation of God and the liturgy of the Mass often have fewer issues, because it's about meeting God that really matters, and once you're used to doing that and needing less help or encouragement or whatever, it doesn't matter so much about the packaging, it's all about the One the worship is for...

Anyway, sorry, I know I've randomly interupted here, but only just returned!

Clare xxx

alkan · #49 24th August 2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by Veritas

Not having read the whole thread, I don't know if this point was made. One of the things modern Evangelical churches try to do is attract young people by rejecting liturgy and liturgical music in favour of free-flowing services focused on the pastor's "message" and contemporary music performed by bands on a stage.

One of the things I cant stand about the mentality within Evangelical churches is that everything is on a very basic level; the music is easy to understand and analyse musically. I'm currently studying music at University, and I can tell you a Bach Chorale (Which is what so many Hymns are based upon) is about a hundred times more complex to analyse than even the most complex of modern worship hymns that I've heard when attending Evangelical churches (Not that it was my choice to attend you must realise!). The message in the liturgy is simplified, and taken very much on face value, often leading to rather extreem views on things which are blown out of proportion.

Eating fast food is nice, because it can easily be chewed. That's a scientific reason it's so addictive; it doesn't take a lot of work by the jaw! Meat is minced and combined with a lot of nice flavours which are fatty in nature, which form the addictive sensation of eating a hamburger. Nothing's wrong with fast food, but it's severely lacking in nourishment compared with a bowl of pasta.

In the same way, an evangelical service is made easy to 'enjoy', and is in some ways pretty superficial. Alright in small doses perhaps, but potentionally poisonus if one gets enough things wrong.

I know the analogy is a bit extreme, but I only mean to show that a service that's attractive and easy to get into is not necessarily the most spiritually fulfilling type of service; a rule which applies fully to the music.[/quote]