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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #1  
Unread 18th July 2006, 06:56 PM
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Did Jesus believe in a literal Noah's Ark and Flood?

It seems many Christian evolutionists do not take Noah's Ark or the Flood story literally, yet you accept Jesus as your savior. Jesus addresses Noah and the Flood in the New Testament:

‘Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the Ark. Then the Flood came and destroyed them all.’ (Luke 17:26–27)

From this passage, it sounds like Jesus is speaking of the Flood as a real event. Since Jesus is your savior, would his words affirming Noah and the Flood convince you it literally happened? If not, why?

This is part 2 of me as an outsider trying to understand the seeming contradiction of Christian TEs who tend to not take the Bible literally except for the Resurrection. (Wherefore Bible literalism is rejected in favor of physical evidence, yet there is none for the Resurrection.)
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  #2  
Unread 18th July 2006, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by xXThePrimeDirectiveXx
Noah's Ark
We are told that Noah's Ark landed on Mt Ararat. Its interesting that if you look at the lakes in that area, they all contain salt water.

An intriguing matter which few people know about Lake Van is that, at 1670 meters above sea level, it is a salt lake. Other large bodies of water in the same general region, including Lake Urmia (at 1250 meters above sea level), the Caspian Sea (the largest landlocked body of water on the entire planet), and the Aral Sea (480 kilometers east in the countries of Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan) are also salt lakes, and yet there are no appreciable salt layers bordering any of these lakes in the local geological strata. The Caspian Sea also contains porpoises and seals, animals which are normally only found in marine environments. The existence of these high altitude salt lakes and their unusual marine life so far inland from ocean environments is a perplexing mystery to orthodox scientists. Certain ‘unorthodox’ scholars, however, (for example Christopher Knight and Robert Lomas, writing in Uriel’s Machine) have gathered evidence which suggests that these bodies of water are each of relatively recent geological origin, dating to around 7640 BC and the seven cometary objects known to have impacted the earth at that time. Why this is so fascinating is that these cometary impacts were all in ocean locations and are known to have initiated massive waves that flooded great areas of land far inland from the actual sites of the cometary impacts. One of the seven impacts was in the Persian Gulf region roughly 800 kilometers south of the region with the enigmatic salt lakes. Considering the strange occurrence of great landlocked, seawater lakes deep within the continental landmass and the unexplained existence of ocean mammals in the lakes, it is safe to say that the probably explanation was that both the water and the mammals were deposited there by the massive flooding caused by the 7640 BC cometary impacts. http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_ea...ey/akdamar.htm
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  #3  
Unread 18th July 2006, 07:13 PM
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John, what do you think about the other faiths that claim a flood story as well?
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Unread 18th July 2006, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by xXThePrimeDirectiveXx
It seems many Christian evolutionists do not take Noah's Ark or the Flood story literally, yet you accept Jesus as your savior. Jesus addresses Noah and the Flood in the New Testament:

‘Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the Ark. Then the Flood came and destroyed them all.’ (Luke 17:26–27)

From this passage, it sounds like Jesus is speaking of the Flood as a real event. Since Jesus is your savior, would his words affirming Noah and the Flood convince you it literally happened? If not, why?

This is part 2 of me as an outsider trying to understand the seeming contradiction of Christian TEs who tend to not take the Bible literally except for the Resurrection. (Wherefore Bible literalism is rejected in favor of physical evidence, yet there is none for the Resurrection.)
"Just as the Sith mercilessly wiped out the Jedi, so terrorists mercilessly killed civilians on September 11th."

I don't believe the Sith and Jedi exist simply cause I use it as a metaphour.

Also Jesus talked about how evil people were back then, I don't see a flood reference.
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  #5  
Unread 18th July 2006, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Kahalachan
"Just as the Sith mercilessly wiped out the Jedi, so terrorists mercilessly killed civilians on September 11th."

I don't believe the Sith and Jedi exist simply cause I use it as a metaphour.

Also Jesus talked about how evil people were back then, I don't see a flood reference.
Ah so your position is he was speaking of the Flood situation, but in keeping with an original metaphorical context?
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Unread 18th July 2006, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnR7
We are told that Noah's Ark landed on Mt Ararat. Its interesting that if you look at the lakes in that area, they all contain salt water.
So you are saying it wasn't a flood at all contrary to the bible, it was just a big splash. Interesting.
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  #7  
Unread 18th July 2006, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by xXThePrimeDirectiveXx
Ah so your position is he was speaking of the Flood situation, but in keeping with an original metaphorical context?
Yes. You can talk about some ominous evil in terms of fiction that will become reality, just as I talked about an immense fictional evil from the Sith but became reality on September 11th.

Even to those of us who don't believe in the flood literally, it is a powerful lesson that the worst possible evil conceived can become true.
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Unread 18th July 2006, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Kahalachan
Yes. You can talk about some ominous evil in terms of fiction that will become reality, just as I talked about an immense fictional evil from the Sith but became reality on September 11th.

Even to those of us who don't believe in the flood literally, it is a powerful lesson that the worst possible evil conceived can become true.
Is there anything in the Bible that helps you come to the conclusion of the Flood and Jesus' talking about it being of a metaphorical context? Or is it your world view outside of the Bible that has helped you reach this interpretation?
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Unread 18th July 2006, 08:11 PM
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It seems to me that he affirmed everything that was ...

Jesus would not make reference to something that was false or misleading and indicate it as truth. This would violate His own nature being that He is God and the fact that God cannot lie because He is the Truth and is not capable or willing or able to make false or misleading statements. References of John 1:1 "The Word was God..."; Psalm 119:160 "The entirety of Your word is truth, and all You righteous judgments endure forever"; John 1:17 "... grace and truth came through Jesus ...", John 14:6 "I am the way, the truth, and the life ...". Man (humanity) is susceptible to exchanging God's truth for lie (Romans 1:25 "They exchange the truth of God for a lie, ...").

With this truth in light of the current topic, Jesus could not discount the truth of the Flood and Noah's arc if He referrenced it. This would be misleading the same as a lie. It would seem to me, Christians who discount the reality of the flood call Jesus authenticity and nature into question giving leway for people to question God's character and Jesus authenticity of being God incarnate. The reliability of God's Word (the Bible) comes into question, Christ and God therefore the whole witness of Jesus and His followers 'Christians'.

If the flood did not happen then did Jesus really happen? Good question. I am sorry if you have been led to doubt the reality of Christ and the reliability of God's Word. Be encouraged that Christ lives, His Word will endure forever and that He loves you and just as He does me. Blessings.
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  #10  
Unread 18th July 2006, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by xXThePrimeDirectiveXx
Is there anything in the Bible that helps you come to the conclusion of the Flood and Jesus' talking about it being of a metaphorical context? Or is it your world view outside of the Bible that has helped you reach this interpretation?
Not Biblical.

My knowledge of zoology and geology and however much I've learned about it made me realize the flood cannot be literal.

It can because of course God could do anything. Shrink all the animals. Have the flood do everything that Hovind says.

But then there is the philosophical question of Why God would do things in such a manner that future generations with their understanding of science would eventually conclude the flood to be a physical impossibility. Why didn't the aftermath of the flood leave evidence of a flood?

So with a little Descartes, and realizing God isn't some deceiver, and knowledge of science, I realize God operates in a consistent manner free of doubts. It's amazing that through science we can begin to understand how God did things, while still having reverence for the fact there will be things we will never experience and understand.
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