| Origins Theology Forum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums. |
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16th July 2006, 12:12 AM
|  | God Made Me A Skeptic
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Reps: 64,647 (power: 108) | | | JL, Hovind is a soundbite guy. He sounds eminently reasonable if he has control over the topic. He's gotten busted on all sorts of stupid lies, and he just keeps repeating them. I'm not talking about stuff that's part of the real debate between creationist and evolutionist theories; I'm talking stuff that other creationists admit is stupid.
The guy is a con artist, pure and simple. If we accept even a fraction of the figures he claims for tapes sold, etcetera, he's making seven-figure income and paying no taxes...
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Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn
I follow Christ; therefore I am
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. I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39 |
16th July 2006, 12:28 AM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by vossler What is disturbing is that a fellow Christian is seemingly gloating over this event. I'm at a loss to understand why.
Are you not more disturbed at the number of creationists rallying in support of a gun-toting, lying fraud? I'm reminded of the support rallies held outside of Michael Jackson's home last year...
Are there any YECs here who will denounce Hovind's deplorable actions?  This is not a proud day for Christianity.
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"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood |
16th July 2006, 12:36 AM
| | God Made Me A Skeptic
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Reps: 64,647 (power: 108) | | | AiG has already denounced Hovind plenty. :p
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Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn
I follow Christ; therefore I am
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. I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39 |
16th July 2006, 01:05 AM
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| | Join Date: 20th July 2004 Location: Wichita Falls, TX
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Reps: 17,483,847 (power: 17,493) | | Originally Posted by Mallon Are you not more disturbed at the number of creationists rallying in support of a gun-toting, lying fraud? I'm reminded of the support rallies held outside of Michael Jackson's home last year...
Are there any YECs here who will denounce Hovind's deplorable actions? This is not a proud day for Christianity.
I have to keep reminding myself of where I am, this isn't China or Cuba but the United States of America. A country where one is supposedly innocent until proven guilty. Yet many Christians here have convicted a man before his trial.
Is this the way you'll respond should I ever get arrested? I pray not! 
You most certainly are right with one statement you made. This is not a proud day for Christianity.
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David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise." |
16th July 2006, 01:40 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by chaoschristian Specifically withdrawing less than $10,000 with the intent to avoid reporting laws, in conjunction with other illegal activity, is a crime.
So, his crime is one purely of alleged intent? And, you deny it's a BS charge?
You say his intent in a legal action makes his legal action a crime because of its conjunction with other illegal activity? That's a BS basis for a crime (even if it the law), but nevermind. That illegal activity is?????
Bank reporting laws are a violation of the 4th Amendment. But, we already know that the Constitution is a dead letter.
BTW, here is what I assume is the relevant law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...4----000-.html
This is BS Big Brother type law. Such laws, by reason of vagueness and victimless nature allow anyone to be charged on a whim by the government. |
16th July 2006, 01:46 AM
| | Contributor
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Reps: 1,170,005,508,018,711 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Poke So, his crime is one purely of alleged intent? And, you deny it's a BS charge?
You say his intent in a legal action makes his legal action a crime because of its conjunction with other illegal activity? That's a BS basis for a crime (even if it the law), but nevermind. That illegal activity is?????
Bank reporting laws are a violation of the 4th Amendment. But, we already know that the Constitution is a dead letter.
BTW, here is what I assume is the relevant law: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/ht...4----000-.html
This is BS Big Brother type law. Such laws, by reason of vagueness and victimless nature allow anyone to be charged on a whim by the government.
We are called to respect, uphold and obey the law as Christians.
If we choose to violate the law, whether for righteousness or selfishness, we must expect to pay the consequences. |
16th July 2006, 01:48 AM
| | God Made Me A Skeptic
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| | Join Date: 9th April 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Reps: 64,647 (power: 108) | | | The issue here is that this arrest is just the culmination of a long period of inquiry. The essential facts are in many cases already findings of law; he has been the recipient of court orders, etcetera.
In short, yes, he has in fact already been proven guilty, in that it has been established by competent courts that he did the things in question. This is not new, either; he's been bragging about some of them for years.
__________________
Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn
I follow Christ; therefore I am
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39 |
16th July 2006, 02:01 AM
| | Regular Member
| | Join Date: 22nd June 2006
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by chaoschristian We are called to respect, uphold and obey the law as Christians.
If we choose to violate the law, whether for righteousness or selfishness, we must expect to pay the consequences.
Which law did Hovind break? The law I refered to is one that that practically no one would know they're violating. As far as he knows, he was working within the law, and he was as far as any valid law goes. Hovind doesn't appear to be motivated by criminal concerns, but by the desire to be free of government coersion, and he believes that's his right, so he's been fighting for it. |
16th July 2006, 02:04 AM
| | God Made Me A Skeptic
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| | Join Date: 9th April 2002 Location: Saint Paul, MN
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Reps: 64,647 (power: 108) | | | Excuses about "valid laws" are useless; if we want to talk validity, technically we should be under tribal law, since we stole this land. :p
Seriously, though, those excuses are worthless. We can argue that maybe the government should not have passed some laws, but they did.
Hovind, well aware of what the law requiring taxes is (no matter what he thinks it ought to be), disobeys it.
This is not significantly different from his burglary charges a while back.
The guy's a con-man. He's been busted on it by Creationist groups; it's not like this is some wacky evolutionist plot.
I don't see why it's such a big deal. We've always had snake-oil salesmen in our little family. We catch 'em, we call 'em on it, they repent or they leave.
Unless they're really photogenic and have a lot of emotionally gripping soundbites against evolution; then we defend them and make up surrealist theories of constitutional interpretation so we can pretend it's okay.
__________________
Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn
I follow Christ; therefore I am
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
. I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39 |
16th July 2006, 02:08 AM
| | Senior Veteran
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| | Join Date: 21st January 2005
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Reps: 54,806,534,063,437,296 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by seebs Excuses about "valid laws" are useless; if we want to talk validity, technically we should be under tribal law, since we stole this land. :p
Seriously, though, those excuses are worthless. We can argue that maybe the government should not have passed some laws, but they did.
Hovind, well aware of what the law requiring taxes is (no matter what he thinks it ought to be), disobeys it.
This is not significantly different from his burglary charges a while back.
The guy's a con-man. He's been busted on it by Creationist groups; it's not like this is some wacky evolutionist plot.
I don't see why it's such a big deal. We've always had snake-oil salesmen in our little family. We catch 'em, we call 'em on it, they repent or they leave.
Unless they're really photogenic and have a lot of emotionally gripping soundbites against evolution; then we defend them and make up surrealist theories of constitutional interpretation so we can pretend it's okay.
Some folks will just go to great lengths to defend an Idol... | | |
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