Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
JL, Hovind is a soundbite guy. He sounds eminently reasonable if he has control over the topic. He's gotten busted on all sorts of stupid lies, and he just keeps repeating them. I'm not talking about stuff that's part of the real debate between creationist and evolutionist theories; I'm talking stuff that other creationists admit is stupid.
The guy is a con artist, pure and simple. If we accept even a fraction of the figures he claims for tapes sold, etcetera, he's making seven-figure income and paying no taxes...
__________________ Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn I follow Christ; therefore I am To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39
What is disturbing is that a fellow Christian is seemingly gloating over this event. I'm at a loss to understand why.
Are you not more disturbed at the number of creationists rallying in support of a gun-toting, lying fraud? I'm reminded of the support rallies held outside of Michael Jackson's home last year...
Are there any YECs here who will denounce Hovind's deplorable actions? This is not a proud day for Christianity.
__________________ We can allow satellites, planets, suns, universe, nay whole systems of universes, to be governed by laws, but the smallest insect, we wish to be created at once by special act.
__________________ Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn I follow Christ; therefore I am To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39
Are you not more disturbed at the number of creationists rallying in support of a gun-toting, lying fraud? I'm reminded of the support rallies held outside of Michael Jackson's home last year...
Are there any YECs here who will denounce Hovind's deplorable actions? This is not a proud day for Christianity.
I have to keep reminding myself of where I am, this isn't China or Cuba but the United States of America. A country where one is supposedly innocent until proven guilty. Yet many Christians here have convicted a man before his trial.
Is this the way you'll respond should I ever get arrested? I pray not!
You most certainly are right with one statement you made. This is not a proud day for Christianity.
__________________ David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise."
Specifically withdrawing less than $10,000 with the intent to avoid reporting laws, in conjunction with other illegal activity, is a crime.
So, his crime is one purely of alleged intent? And, you deny it's a BS charge?
You say his intent in a legal action makes his legal action a crime because of its conjunction with other illegal activity? That's a BS basis for a crime (even if it the law), but nevermind. That illegal activity is?????
Bank reporting laws are a violation of the 4th Amendment. But, we already know that the Constitution is a dead letter.
So, his crime is one purely of alleged intent? And, you deny it's a BS charge?
You say his intent in a legal action makes his legal action a crime because of its conjunction with other illegal activity? That's a BS basis for a crime (even if it the law), but nevermind. That illegal activity is?????
Bank reporting laws are a violation of the 4th Amendment. But, we already know that the Constitution is a dead letter.
The issue here is that this arrest is just the culmination of a long period of inquiry. The essential facts are in many cases already findings of law; he has been the recipient of court orders, etcetera.
In short, yes, he has in fact already been proven guilty, in that it has been established by competent courts that he did the things in question. This is not new, either; he's been bragging about some of them for years.
__________________ Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn I follow Christ; therefore I am To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39
We are called to respect, uphold and obey the law as Christians.
If we choose to violate the law, whether for righteousness or selfishness, we must expect to pay the consequences.
Which law did Hovind break? The law I refered to is one that that practically no one would know they're violating. As far as he knows, he was working within the law, and he was as far as any valid law goes. Hovind doesn't appear to be motivated by criminal concerns, but by the desire to be free of government coersion, and he believes that's his right, so he's been fighting for it.
Excuses about "valid laws" are useless; if we want to talk validity, technically we should be under tribal law, since we stole this land. :p
Seriously, though, those excuses are worthless. We can argue that maybe the government should not have passed some laws, but they did.
Hovind, well aware of what the law requiring taxes is (no matter what he thinks it ought to be), disobeys it.
This is not significantly different from his burglary charges a while back.
The guy's a con-man. He's been busted on it by Creationist groups; it's not like this is some wacky evolutionist plot.
I don't see why it's such a big deal. We've always had snake-oil salesmen in our little family. We catch 'em, we call 'em on it, they repent or they leave.
Unless they're really photogenic and have a lot of emotionally gripping soundbites against evolution; then we defend them and make up surrealist theories of constitutional interpretation so we can pretend it's okay.
__________________ Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn I follow Christ; therefore I am To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. . I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39
Excuses about "valid laws" are useless; if we want to talk validity, technically we should be under tribal law, since we stole this land. :p
Seriously, though, those excuses are worthless. We can argue that maybe the government should not have passed some laws, but they did.
Hovind, well aware of what the law requiring taxes is (no matter what he thinks it ought to be), disobeys it.
This is not significantly different from his burglary charges a while back.
The guy's a con-man. He's been busted on it by Creationist groups; it's not like this is some wacky evolutionist plot.
I don't see why it's such a big deal. We've always had snake-oil salesmen in our little family. We catch 'em, we call 'em on it, they repent or they leave.
Unless they're really photogenic and have a lot of emotionally gripping soundbites against evolution; then we defend them and make up surrealist theories of constitutional interpretation so we can pretend it's okay.
Some folks will just go to great lengths to defend an Idol...
__________________ "If I told you what it takes to reach the highest high,
You'd laugh and say 'Nothing's that simple!' But you've been told many times before,
Messiahs pointed to the door, And no one had the guts to leave the temple!" -- The Who
This is not a proud day for Christianity. 
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