Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
I don't get what xpiotosaves is trying to say here at all. I hope it doesn't have anything to do with that abominable doctrine of Bob Jones University, who use this passage for opposition to inter-racial marriage. Ohhh... I get it. I think you are saying that you do not believe in the theory of evolution as an origin of species. Well I am afraid that would exclude me and #6. That would be YEC and I certainly do not agree.
Oh, inter-racial marriage is 100% fine with me, and I've never even heard of Bob Jones University. It seems like you figured out what I was saying reguardless. I believe in microevolution but not macroevolution, but it doesn't really matter.
All that matters is that we all believe in Jesus as Christ, which we all do here.
. I believe in microevolution but not macroevolution, but it doesn't really matter.
If you accept microevolution, you also accept macroevolution even if you don't know it, as they are just different phases of the same process. If microevolution occurs, it is inevitable that macroevolution also occurs.
You are probably saddled with an inaccurate concept of macroevolution that prevents you seeing this. From a scientific perspective macroevolution (speciation) has been observed and is not in question.
__________________ The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
From a scientific perspective macroevolution (speciation) has been observed and is not in question.
I keep hearing you say this, but I've yet to see you prove it. Please show us the observed macroevolution you elude to.
__________________ David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise."
And before you object that this is not what you mean by macroevolution, that is my point. You are saddled with an inaccurate concept of what macroevolution is.
Speciation is macroevolution. All macroevolution occurs through speciation.
__________________ The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
And before you object that this is not what you mean by macroevolution, that is my point. You are saddled with an inaccurate concept of what macroevolution is.
Yes I've been referred to that site before, it hasn't changed since the last time I was there.
I'm saddled with a lot if deficiences but my eyes still work and can see. I have never observed speciation and in order to do that I would need to see it.
If someone states that speciation has been observed then they should provide visual evidence of it, otherwise how can one say it was observed?
__________________ David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise."
As a non-scientist I'm not interested in reproducing an experiment where a scientist makes a claim, I'd rather he provide visual proof of what is claimed to be an observable phenomena.
The only difficulty is that it's impossible for a picture to communicate the diet of a particular animal. They could show a picture of some fruit flies in front of a piece of meat, and another picture of some fruit flies in front of some fruit, but it wouldn't really mean anything. That's why I say if you really want to see it for yourself, you can perform the experiment for yourself. This is actually pretty easy compared to many sciences. For some experiments, you would need a multi-billion dollar telescope mounted on a satellite or a comparably expensive particle accelerator. No "layman" could ever perform those experiments. But you can perform this one. Fruit flies are hardly endangered.
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As a non-scientist I'm not interested in reproducing an experiment where a scientist makes a claim, I'd rather he provide visual proof of what is claimed to be an observable phenomena.
Vossler, the way you are arguing one is led to believe that you were born and raised in Missourah!
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I use the black cross, because at heart, I'm Johnny Cash.
Vossler, the way you are arguing one is led to believe that you were born and raised in Missourah!
I wasn't born or raised there, but I did spend some time in the military there. Initially I thought that was a weird motto for a state to have, but since then have grown to admire it.
__________________ David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise."
Yeah, I'm a visual person. Seeing is believing you know.
Ok. Go to the sources. Some will likely have pictures.
Is that the only record of observed speciation?
You know it is not.
You can show me all sorts of records that show DNA, genes, etc. going through change, but the old saying that a picture is worth a thousand words would certainly be applicable here.
What if the difference is a difference in digestive chemistry? How would that show up in a picture? What if it is a matter of slightly different pheromones that the ladies find attractive? How will pictures demonstrate an olfactory attractant?
Pictures will only help when the change is to a visible body part. But morphology may be the least of the changes.
Again, you're making the claim, I'd like you to provide the evidence.
I have provided the key to the door. You need to use it to access the evidence as originally provided by the researchers.
Again, it's hard to see something that doesn't exist, so when told to see it we're left to our imagination.
Observed evidence does exist. You only need to remove the blinders that prevent you from seeing it.
__________________ The high, the low, all of creation God gives to humankind to use. If this privilege is misused, God's Justice permits creation to punish humanity~~ Hildegard of Bingen cited in, Earth Prayers from around the World
The only difficulty is that it's impossible for a picture to communicate the diet of a particular animal. They could show a picture of some fruit flies in front of a piece of meat, and another picture of some fruit flies in front of some fruit, but it wouldn't really mean anything. That's why I say if you really want to see it for yourself, you can perform the experiment for yourself. This is actually pretty easy compared to many sciences. For some experiments, you would need a multi-billion dollar telescope mounted on a satellite or a comparably expensive particle accelerator. No "layman" could ever perform those experiments. But you can perform this one. Fruit flies are hardly endangered.
Well this doesn't hardly sound like speciation, it sounds more like variation. Kind of like dogs.
I'm looking for something far more substantial than that.
__________________ David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise."
I wasn't born or raised there, but I did spend some time in the military there. Initially I thought that was a weird motto for a state to have, but since then have grown to admire it. 
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