| Origins Theology Forum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums. |
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10th July 2006, 02:56 PM
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Reps: 17,483,847 (power: 17,493) | | Originally Posted by Mallon I don't think we need to adjust either. I would argue that the only thing that needs adjusting is our perspective on the Bible, with an understanding of who's perspective the Scriptures were written from.
If our perspective needs adjusting for something as simple as Genesis, I'd hate to imagine what kind of perspective adjustments we'll make for the rest of the Bible. Originally Posted by Mallon I see science as a gift from God, used to help us to understand the world He has blessed us with.
You can see it anyway you wish, the bottom line is God never saw it that way. All the gifts He gave us are clearly identified within His Word. Originally Posted by Mallon You're just as guilty as the rest of us, if you believe the earth to be a sphere, the atmosphere to be gaseous, and the sun to be at the centre of our galaxy. 
Yet none of those things directly contradict the Bible like evolution does.
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10th July 2006, 03:07 PM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by nickspacek This article is an interesting read:
www .trueorigin. org/flatearth01.asp
(I can't post links so you'll have to get rid of the spaces)
Seen it. But if you don't believe the Bible describes the earth as being flat, then, as the creationists say, "you're not taking God at His word".
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"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood |
10th July 2006, 03:19 PM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by vossler If our perspective needs adjusting for something as simple as Genesis, I'd hate to imagine what kind of perspective adjustments we'll make for the rest of the Bible.
You can cross that bridge when you get to it. So far, I haven't come across any issues amongst TE re: the veracity of the rest of the Bible. Either way, your statement is borderline non-sequitur. You can see it anyway you wish, the bottom line is God never saw it that way. All the gifts He gave us are clearly identified within His Word.
Care to back that up? Yet none of those things directly contradict the Bible like evolution does.
1 Samuel 2:8: "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them."
I beg to differ.
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"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood |
10th July 2006, 04:10 PM
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Reps: 17,483,847 (power: 17,493) | | Originally Posted by Mallon You can cross that bridge when you get to it. So far, I haven't come across any issues amongst TE re: the veracity of the rest of the Bible. Either way, your statement is borderline non-sequitur.
Well if the literal days of creation can be changed then other changes can creep in. Just to mention a few, Adam & Eve, Abraham, Moses, etc. How many of these were real people? According to TEs, none, some, or all. How about the flood? Originally Posted by Mallon Care to back that up?
1 Corinthians 12 and Romans 12 are but two areas where God describes His gifts to us, neither include science. Originally Posted by Mallon 1 Samuel 2:8: "He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them."
I beg to differ.
Clearly a figurative verse that is easy to understand for most people to be just that. 
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10th July 2006, 04:21 PM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by vossler 1 Corinthians 12 and Romans 12 are but two areas where God describes His gifts to us, neither include science.
Are they exhaustive, all-inclusive lists of God's blessings to us? Is the polio vaccine listed on there? Probably not, seeing as how it had not yet been invented (and nor had the scientific method, at that point). Clearly a figurative verse that is easy to understand for most people to be just that.
Indeed. Knowing what we know, it would be silly to believe otherwise, right? Similarly, TEs feel the creation account was meant to convey the truth of God's creative powers through figurative means.
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"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood |
10th July 2006, 04:30 PM
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10th July 2006, 04:33 PM
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Reps: 17,483,847 (power: 17,493) | | Originally Posted by Mallon Are they exhaustive, all-inclusive lists of God's blessings to us? Is the polio vaccine listed on there? Probably not, seeing as how it had not yet been invented (and nor had the scientific method, at that point).
Nothing about what God has told us is exhaustive. Are you admitting that the polio vaccine was a gift from God? Originally Posted by Mallon Indeed. Knowing what we know, it would be silly to believe otherwise, right?
Knowing what people have always known, yes! Originally Posted by Mallon Similarly, TEs feel the creation account was meant to convey the truth of God's creative powers through figurative means.
As you are entitled to believe! The operative word here being "feel." I try not to base my beliefs upon my feelings, they're usually not very accurate or a good indicator of truth.
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David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise." |
10th July 2006, 04:52 PM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by vossler Nothing about what God has told us is exhaustive. Are you admitting that the polio vaccine was a gift from God?
Of course! Every good thing is a gift from God! Including science. Knowing what people have always known, yes!
Thing is: we didn't always know the earth was round. The ancient Hebrews certainly didn't believe this, which is why they wrote about it having four corners and resting on pillars. As you are entitled to believe! The operative word here being "feel." I try not to base my beliefs upon my feelings, they're usually not very accurate or a good indicator of truth. Oy ve. You were so close to following my thought processes through 'til the end, but you gave up here!
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"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood |
10th July 2006, 05:02 PM
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Reps: 17,483,847 (power: 17,493) | | Originally Posted by Mallon Of course! Every good thing is a gift from God! Including science.
That's good to hear! Does that also mean that you believe He should receive the glory for it? Originally Posted by Mallon Thing is: we didn't always know the earth was round. The ancient Hebrews certainly didn't believe this, which is why they wrote about it having four corners and resting on pillars.
Whether the Hebrews thought the earth was flat, round or a sphere doesn't in any way change the meaning of this scripture, that is my point. Originally Posted by Mallon Oy ve. You were so close to following my thought processes through 'til the end, but you gave up here!
I'll try harder next time. 
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David Cooper: "When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense;therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, literal meaning, unless the facts of the context indicate clearly otherwise." |
10th July 2006, 05:10 PM
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Reps: 18,889,155,825,852,136 (power: 18,889,155,825,864) | | Originally Posted by vossler That's good to hear! Does that also mean that you believe He should receive the glory for it?
Yes. Where are you going with this? Whether the Hebrews thought the earth was flat, round or a sphere doesn't in any way change the meaning of this scripture, that is my point.
Exacly! Are you sure you're not a TE? Similarly, whether the Hebrews thought the earth was old, young, flat, or round doesn't change the meaning of the creation or Flood stories! I'm glad we could clear this up.
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"There is evidence for evolution, gobs and gobs of it. It is not just speculation or a faith choice or an assumption or a religion. It is a productive framework for lots of biological research, and it has amazing explanatory power. There is no conspiracy to hide the truth about the failure of evolution. There has really been no failure of evolution as a scientific theory. It works, and it works well." -- creation scientist Dr. Todd Wood | | |
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