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  #1  
Old 28th June 2006, 07:16 PM
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Bad Theology In Hymns

Quite often, we here that the newer songs (CCM) are shallow. Yet, at the same time, we sing the "grand old hymns" without any thought about what we are singing.

Now, let me state from the starts that I LOVE the old hymns, and not in anyway shape or form suggesting that we abandon them. But there is some very bad theology in some of them. I am starting a new thread in an attempt to address some of these.
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  #2  
Old 28th June 2006, 07:22 PM
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example?
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  #3  
Old 28th June 2006, 07:26 PM
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Here is one example:

One of the greatest hymn writers ever was Fanny Crosby. But one of her hymns really bothers me, and that one is "Pass Me Not." Look at the chorus:

Savior, Savior,
Hear my humble cry;
While on others Thou art calling,
Do not pass me by.

Now-attempt to reconcile that with:

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

When, oh when, did Christ ever pass anyone who calledl up His precious name?? The answer is NEVER!

Rich


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Old 29th June 2006, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich48
Quite often, we here that the newer songs (CCM) are shallow. Yet, at the same time, we sing the "grand old hymns" without any thought about what we are singing.

Now, let me state from the starts that I LOVE the old hymns, and not in anyway shape or form suggesting that we abandon them. But there is some very bad theology in some of them. I am starting a new thread in an attempt to address some of these.
Just wanted to mention something. The reason I like the older hymns doesn't necessarily have to do with the fact that they are old. I was not raised in the church, and so all hymns are new to me. I've found old hymns with shallow theology, and new hymns with a lot of theology. But in general, I've found that the older hymns tend to be deeper. Some people may have a differing opinion, which is OK. This is just my personal observation.

Originally Posted by Rich48
Here is one example:

One of the greatest hymn writers ever was Fanny Crosby. But one of her hymns really bothers me, and that one is "Pass Me Not." Look at the chorus:

Savior, Savior,
Hear my humble cry;
While on others Thou art calling,
Do not pass me by.

Now-attempt to reconcile that with:

Rom 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

When, oh when, did Christ ever pass anyone who calledl up His precious name?? The answer is NEVER!

Rich
Actually this is one hymn I haven't heard often (in fact, I think I've only heard it once before). But based solely upon the lyrics, it seems to be more of a rhetorical question. My guess is that anyone singing the hymn would instantly recognize that the author's point is that Christ will not pass us by. By human logic he ought to, and being humans we plead for God to save us when we call on him, not realizing that our salvation is already secure in Christ.

Nonetheless I do see your point. I suppose this could have been worded better.
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Old 30th June 2006, 01:14 AM
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Very true-it is just bad wording-"while on others thou are calling, do not pass me by."

I heard a preacher on time come down hard on on the old hymn "Near The Cross." His thought was that we are not stay at the cross, but to go to the world and reach them. A bit a a stretch?

Rich
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Old 30th June 2006, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Rich48
Very true-it is just bad wording-"while on others thou are calling, do not pass me by."

I heard a preacher on time come down hard on on the old hymn "Near The Cross." His thought was that we are not stay at the cross, but to go to the world and reach them. A bit a a stretch?
Yes, that does sound rather legalistic. Besides that, the Bible says:
I hate the assembly of evildoers, and I will not sit with the wicked. I wash my hands in innocence and go around your altar, O LORD, proclaiming thanksgiving aloud, and telling all your wondrous deeds. (Psalm 26:5-7)
When taken as allegory, the altar is the cross. So it would seem that we should stay near the cross.
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Old 12th July 2006, 11:54 AM
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Ok-here is another that, at least for me, has serious problems. Here is the first verse and the chorus:

IS MY NAME WRITTEN THERE?

Lord, I care not for riches, neither silver nor gold;
I would make sure of Heaven, I would enter the fold.
In the book of Thy kingdom, with its pages so fair,
Tell me, Jesus, my Savior, is my name written there?

(chorus)
Is my name written there,
On the page white and fair?
In the book of Thy kingdom,
Is my name written there?

When He saves us, WE ARE SAVED. There is absolutely NO doubt that our names are there! If He is your Savior, then there is no need to ask this question!

Rich
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Old 21st July 2006, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich48
Ok-here is another that, at least for me, has serious problems. Here is the first verse and the chorus:

IS MY NAME WRITTEN THERE?

Lord, I care not for riches, neither silver nor gold;
I would make sure of Heaven, I would enter the fold.
In the book of Thy kingdom, with its pages so fair,
Tell me, Jesus, my Savior, is my name written there?

(chorus)
Is my name written there,
On the page white and fair?
In the book of Thy kingdom,
Is my name written there?

When He saves us, WE ARE SAVED. There is absolutely NO doubt that our names are there! If He is your Savior, then there is no need to ask this question!

Rich
I think what you find is that there is a lot of sentimentality in hymns. Probably particularly in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Not everyone had the depth of someone like Charles Wesley. And not everyone spoke the King's English.

It's up to those who are leaders in teh congregation to weed out the schmaltzy stuff that's just wrong theologically.
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Old 21st July 2006, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by WardSmythe
I think what you find is that there is a lot of sentimentality in hymns. Probably particularly in the late 1800s, early 1900s. Not everyone had the depth of someone like Charles Wesley. And not everyone spoke the King's English.

It's up to those who are leaders in teh congregation to weed out the schmaltzy stuff that's just wrong theologically.
It's interesting that you say this. There are some overly sentimental hymns from the 1800s, but I tend to think that most contemporary music fits this description. Would you agree?

A bit off topic, but Charles Wesley is one of my most favorite hymn-writers.
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Old 22nd July 2006, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by arunma
It's interesting that you say this. There are some overly sentimental hymns from the 1800s, but I tend to think that most contemporary music fits this description. Would you agree?

A bit off topic, but Charles Wesley is one of my most favorite hymn-writers.
Most of it? No, I don't believe I would agree with that. But yes, it would be more apt to contemporary than the hymns of the church. There is a lot of great "new" music out there! "How Great Is Our God" is a shining example!

It is sad, but a lot of Christian shun any "new" music. There once was a man who firmly, no, VERY firmly believed that NO new music could be "good." He hated anything that was not "traditional" church music. This man married, and, in time, felt the need to change churches. He and and wife began to search for a new church, and visited one that (oh my) used some newer hymns-yes, they were what we today would call traditional. God spoke to this man, and he felt the call to write NEW hymns! And what did he write? "I Have Settled The Question", "Glorious Freedom", "Tell The Blessed Story", and many, many more. But this man's best known hymn was one of the favorites of many a Christian-"Wonderful Grace of Jesus." The man? Halador Lillenas.

Rich
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