Hot DIGGITY!!!! I need me some PROOF!

Loudmouth · #21 27th June 2006, 07:50 PM

Originally Posted by lemon_drop

Proof is for alcohol, mathematics, and Fundies

And apparently, scientists as well. Just about everyone desires proof...whatever it may be.

Wrong. Scientists desire empirical evidence. Proof is for mathematicians and philosophers (and fundies).

Baggins · #22 27th June 2006, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by lemon_drop

Proof is for alcohol, mathematics, and Fundies

And apparently, scientists as well. Just about everyone desires proof...whatever it may be.

Science can never be proved because that would disallow new evidence turning up that could alter a theory.

The theory of evolution is not proved, because a piece of evidence could turn up tomorrow that would mean it needed to be altered or dropped, something like DNA sequencing that showed humans were more closely related to cod than to chimps for instance would lead to a major rethink of some parts of the theory, if you aren't open to the possibility of counter evidence disproving your theory you are no longer a scientist.

Of course the theory of evolution is so well evidenced now that this is very unlikely, but it is not impossible so evolution is not proved, nor will it or any other scientific theory ever be.

I hope that long winded explanation helped.

Dannager · #23 27th June 2006, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by lemon_drop

And apparently, scientists as well. Just about everyone desires proof...whatever it may be.

Nah, we just want empirical evidence. There's no such thing as proof under the scientific method.

I_Love_Cheese · #24 27th June 2006, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

Has anyone got an opinion on this site?

http://www.godandscience.org/evolution/index.html

http://www.godandscience.org/apologe...ocalflood.html

Yes, unfortunately, the site is basically the ID argument from incredulity, i.e. we don't understand it so it must have been designed and thus GODDIDIT. It is an insult to TEs and anyone else who thinks for themselves.

You did ask for opinions.

fromdownunder · #25 27th June 2006, 09:22 PM

Here is the proof

The proof is the alcohol content of distilled liquors. It is the percentage of alcohol multiplied by two. For example:

50% alcohol = 100-proof alcohol
100% alcohol = 200-proof alcohol

Hhhmmmm... alcohol

Norm

lemon_drop · #26 27th June 2006, 09:48 PM

Originally Posted by Dannager

Nah, we just want empirical evidence. There's no such thing as proof under the scientific method.

Nah, we just want empirical evidence. There's no such thing as proof under the scientific method.

Science can never be proved because that would disallow new evidence turning up that could alter a theory.

The theory of evolution is not proved, because a piece of evidence could turn up tomorrow that would mean it needed to be altered or dropped

Wrong. Scientists desire empirical evidence. Proof is for mathematicians and philosophers (and fundies).

I guess I stand corrected by you three. That is also why I do not prefer the scientific way of looking at life or the world. I personally find proof to be more compelling than evidence. For me if there is no proof beyond the shadow of a doubt, I can't believe it. I also must stress that proof for me can only be determined by me.

Tomk80 · #27 27th June 2006, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by lemon_drop

I guess I stand corrected by you three. That is also why I do not prefer the scientific way of looking at life or the world. I personally find proof to be more compelling than evidence. For me if there is no proof beyond the shadow of a doubt, I can't believe it. I also must stress that proof for me can only be determined by me.

What you are in fact saying here, is that you rather live in some pseudo-secure world instead of in reality. You do not want to cope with the reality that you/we might be wrong in the way we view our world. So instead of facing up to that and opening yourself up to new evidence, if that would arise, you decide to stick your head in the sand and pretend that this will never happen. In real life, proof does not exist. There is only evidence.

There is, of course, a gigantic downside to your way of dealing with that problem. If you are wrong, and the chances that you are wrong are quite big, no matter which viewpoint you hold to, you can never let yourself be corrected on that or gain that insight and correct your worldview yourself. Instead, even though you may be completely and utterly wrong, you try to live in your world of 'proof', non-existant though it is.

LewisWildermuth · #28 27th June 2006, 10:04 PM

Originally Posted by lemon_drop

I guess I stand corrected by you three. That is also why I do not prefer the scientific way of looking at life or the world. I personally find proof to be more compelling than evidence. For me if there is no proof beyond the shadow of a doubt, I can't believe it. I also must stress that proof for me can only be determined by me.

This is a very odd thing to hear from a Christian, after all we are to believe in God, unseen and without proof.

I am sad that someone seems to have poisoned your mind about science with such an un-Christian manner of thinking.

Here is a great site made by Christians who are scientists or work in scientific fields.

http://www.asa3.org/

This should help clear up some of the anti-science garbage that someone seems to have sold you on.

fromdownunder · #29 27th June 2006, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by lemon_drop

I personally find proof to be more compelling than evidence. For me if there is no proof beyond the shadow of a doubt, I can't believe it. I also must stress that proof for me can only be determined by me.

How can you establish truth without looking at evidence? Just curious....

Norm

lemon_drop · #30 27th June 2006, 10:20 PM

What you are in fact saying here, is that you rather live in some pseudo-secure world instead of in reality.

What I am saying is exactly what was said. I am not denying the reality that I have seen throughout my life.

This is a very odd thing to hear from a Christian, after all we are to believe in God, unseen and without proof.

I am sad that someone seems to have poisoned your mind about science with such an un-Christian manner of thinking.

Here is a great site made by Christians who are scientists or work in scientific fields.

http://www.asa3.org/

This should help clear up some of the anti-science garbage that someone seems to have sold you on.

Here are two more interesting sites:
Radiometric Dating

We should be wise as serpents indeed.

Science, Technology and Faith

Don't be sad because I am certainly not sad. I have nothing against science. It does not contain all of the answers I need. I guess you missed the point of my post. Could you give me a few biblical references where it is illustrated that I should rely on science for answers to questions about life and the world? I am also willing to concede if you bring in some biblical passages that we should believe in God without proof? I have an idea of which passages you will probably bring in, but I need to be sure.