Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > Theology (orthodox Christians only) > General Theology
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:23 AM
Regular Member

Gender: Female Faith: Christian Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 24th May 2006
Posts: 149
Blessings: 144,181
Reps: 1,295 (power: 10)
gennfamily has disabled reputation
Sad can backsliding be forgiven?

I do not see this question anywhere else. I see quite a bit of people believing what they want to believe despite clear cut scripture. I am hoping to get some Scripturally sound perspective on this from spiritually mature Christians. I keep coming up against "sin wilfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth, and there be no sacrifice for sins left, and we come under a certain fearful expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the advesaries of God" (Heb 10:26-27)
So if a person is a Christian but struggles and falls away even though they know there is a God, does this Scripture stand as the bottom line despite anything after that time? Does that also mean that a seemingly succesful reunion with the Lord such as happens with 12 step or other recovery and counseling programs is nothing but self-delusion?
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #2  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:45 AM
DeaconDean's Avatar
γέγονα χαλκὸς, κύμβαλον ἀλαλάζον

52 Gender: Male Married Faith: Baptist Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 5 Years Commander
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 20th July 2005
Location: Gastonia N.C. (Piedmont of N.C.)
Posts: 18,160
Blessings: 220,390
My Mood Tell
Blog Entries: 4
Reps: 620,984,419,067,310,208 (power: 620,984,419,067,338)
DeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond repute
DeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond reputeDeaconDean has a reputation beyond repute
Friend, this is just my own take of what is in the scriptures.

"Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee. But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth. And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly."-Matt. 26:69-75

Look at that passage closely. Peter not only denied knowing Jesus but went as far as to even revert to his former life. He began to curse. As I look at these scriptures, I would suggest that Peter "backslid." But afterward, he went out and cried bitterly. As I look at that, to me that suggests that Peter repented of his sin.

Anybody can backslide. I was a Christian until I was 14 y/o, then I walked away. I stayed out in the world until I was 37. Now, I could not see any way I could do that now. I had backslid. But the difference is that I came back. Just like the prodigal son, I was lost, but now I'm found. I was dead, but now I'm alive.

To me, the only 12 step program you have to take are those steps which keep you separate from God.

Let me put it like this, as long as there is a breath of life left in you, there is hope. Only after you die is there no hope if you don't know Jesus.

The writer of Hebrews knew we couldn't walk without sinning:

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," -Heb. 12:1

Thank God that He made provision for us when this happens:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." -1 John 1:9

Yes friend, as long as there is a breath of life in us, there is hope. The "backslidden" can be forgiven.
__________________
"When you have to shoot, shoot, don't talk."
  #3  
Old 21st June 2006, 04:22 AM
Regular Member

Gender: Female Faith: Christian Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 24th May 2006
Posts: 149
Blessings: 144,181
Reps: 1,295 (power: 10)
gennfamily has disabled reputation
I appreciate the gentleness of your answer as well as the scripture. GBY
  #4  
Old 21st June 2006, 08:33 AM
OrthodoxyUSA's Avatar
Learning from within The Church of Antioch

50 Gender: Male Married Faith: Eastern-Orthodox Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 6th July 2004
Location: Tupelo, MS
Posts: 23,389
Blessings: 171,151,597
My Mood Bookworm
Blog Entries: 1
Reps: 3,705,002,066,544,952,832 (power: 0)
OrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond repute
OrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond reputeOrthodoxyUSA has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by DeaconDean
Friend, this is just my own take of what is in the scriptures.

"Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee. But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth. And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly."-Matt. 26:69-75

Look at that passage closely. Peter not only denied knowing Jesus but went as far as to even revert to his former life. He began to curse. As I look at these scriptures, I would suggest that Peter "backslid." But afterward, he went out and cried bitterly. As I look at that, to me that suggests that Peter repented of his sin.

Anybody can backslide. I was a Christian until I was 14 y/o, then I walked away. I stayed out in the world until I was 37. Now, I could not see any way I could do that now. I had backslid. But the difference is that I came back. Just like the prodigal son, I was lost, but now I'm found. I was dead, but now I'm alive.

To me, the only 12 step program you have to take are those steps which keep you separate from God.

Let me put it like this, as long as there is a breath of life left in you, there is hope. Only after you die is there no hope if you don't know Jesus.

The writer of Hebrews knew we couldn't walk without sinning:

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," -Heb. 12:1

Thank God that He made provision for us when this happens:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." -1 John 1:9

Yes friend, as long as there is a breath of life in us, there is hope. The "backslidden" can be forgiven.
Well done!

1000 points for DeaconDean! (Remember, the points don't matter. )

Forgive me...
  #5  
Old 21st June 2006, 09:55 AM
stumpjumper's Avatar
Left the river, made it to the sea

39 Gender: Male Married Faith: Christian Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 10th May 2005
Posts: 18,660
Blessings: 62,252
Blog Entries: 3
Reps: 9,912,024,706,364 (power: 9,912,024,734)
stumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond repute
stumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond reputestumpjumper has a reputation beyond repute
Good post indeed Deacon...

I also like the parable of the Lost Sheep:

[bible]Matthew 18:10-14[/bible]

We can be in the fold and fall away but that does not mean that the Shephard will not come and find us...
__________________
“This is the man I want myself to be but who cannot exist, because God does not know anything about him. And to be unknown to God is altogether too much privacy. My false and private self is the one who wants to exist outside the reach of God’s will and God’s love –outside of reality and outside of life. And such a self cannot help but be an illusion." -- Thomas Merton
  #6  
Old 21st June 2006, 10:16 AM
...a dinosaur... or something...

30 Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 5th August 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 16,102
Blessings: 129,836
My Mood Lurking
Reps: 91,460,099,819 (power: 91,460,125)
intricatic has disabled reputation
Instead of answering, I shall present you with two pieces of scripture and you may draw your own conclusions from it.

And Thus, The First Piece

And Thus, The Second Piece
[Full Chapter]
__________________

  #7  
Old 21st June 2006, 02:33 PM
Regular Member

Gender: Female Faith: Christian Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 24th May 2006
Posts: 149
Blessings: 144,181
Reps: 1,295 (power: 10)
gennfamily has disabled reputation
i have to say i think this is the first time here that i've seen every single speaker agree regardless of denomination and not a single one say something personal and mean. thanks. it's cool to see so much solid Scripture.
  #8  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:30 PM
Cribstyl's Avatar
Veteran

54 Gender: Male Married Faith: Pentecostal Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 13th June 2006
Posts: 6,965
Blessings: 50,874,136
My Mood Praising
Reps: 2,223,481,279,993,342,208 (power: 2,223,481,279,993,357)
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
Cribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond reputeCribstyl has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by gennfamily
I do not see this question anywhere else. I see quite a bit of people believing what they want to believe despite clear cut scripture. I am hoping to get some Scripturally sound perspective on this from spiritually mature Christians. I keep coming up against "sin wilfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth, and there be no sacrifice for sins left, and we come under a certain fearful expectation of judgement, and fiery indignation which will devour the advesaries of God" (Heb 10:26-27)
So if a person is a Christian but struggles and falls away even though they know there is a God, does this Scripture stand as the bottom line despite anything after that time? Does that also mean that a seemingly succesful reunion with the Lord such as happens with 12 step or other recovery and counseling programs is nothing but self-delusion?



HEB 10:26For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

MANY BELIEVERS BELIEVE THAT THEY'VE HAVE USED THE BLOOD TOO MANY TIMES, AS YOU KNOW,THAT'S CALLED CONVICTION. IF YOU HEED THE VERSE IN HEB10:25 AND NOT FORSAKE GATHERING WITH OTHER BELIEVERS. WE WILL REMIND THAT THE BLOOD WAS SHED ONCE FAR ALL AND THAT NEVER WILL NEVER LOSE IT'S POWER.

THERE IS ASSURANCE OF FORGIVENESS OF SIN

Ijohn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

THERE IS ASSURANCE OF DELIVERANCE FROM TEMPTATION

There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God [is] faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear [it].

Last edited by Cribstyl; 21st June 2006 at 03:36 PM.
  #9  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:33 PM
Leah's Avatar
2 Corinthians 5:21

36 Gender: Female Faith: Christian Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 26th May 2005
Posts: 4,961
Blessings: 101,172,368
My Mood Fine
Blog Entries: 46
Reps: 442,862,106,153,140,992 (power: 442,862,106,153,155)
Leah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond repute
Leah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond reputeLeah has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by DeaconDean
Friend, this is just my own take of what is in the scriptures.

"Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee. But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth. And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly."-Matt. 26:69-75

Look at that passage closely. Peter not only denied knowing Jesus but went as far as to even revert to his former life. He began to curse. As I look at these scriptures, I would suggest that Peter "backslid." But afterward, he went out and cried bitterly. As I look at that, to me that suggests that Peter repented of his sin.

Anybody can backslide. I was a Christian until I was 14 y/o, then I walked away. I stayed out in the world until I was 37. Now, I could not see any way I could do that now. I had backslid. But the difference is that I came back. Just like the prodigal son, I was lost, but now I'm found. I was dead, but now I'm alive.

To me, the only 12 step program you have to take are those steps which keep you separate from God.

Let me put it like this, as long as there is a breath of life left in you, there is hope. Only after you die is there no hope if you don't know Jesus.

The writer of Hebrews knew we couldn't walk without sinning:

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," -Heb. 12:1

Thank God that He made provision for us when this happens:

"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." -1 John 1:9

Yes friend, as long as there is a breath of life in us, there is hope. The "backslidden" can be forgiven.
*Gods Revenger dances*

I needed to know this too and thank you for reminding me!
  #10  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:35 PM
PastorMikeJ's Avatar
combat veteran

69 Gender: Male Married Faith: Word-of-Faith Party: US-Others Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 10th November 2005
Location: Shaftsbury, Vermont
Posts: 2,309
Blessings: 174,443
Reps: 54,421 (power: 65)
PastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to behold
PastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to beholdPastorMikeJ is a splendid one to behold
even Peter backslided...when he denied Jesus 3 times..and God forgave him..I was backsliden for 3 yrs and the Lord forgave me...so I am in good company with Peter...we both are forgiven...
__________________
The Jesus in me loves the Jesus in you!!
(Eph 2:6) and has raised us up together and made us sit together in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus,

(Eph 2:7) so that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
Closed Thread


Return to General Theology

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:45 AM.