| Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too. |
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3rd January 2003, 12:37 PM
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Originally posted by The Thadman
Different human races are due to speciation, not Evolution (with a capital E).
Speciation ("Micro" evolution) is: When a human and a human have a child, the result will always be a human but have a combination of the genetic traits of it's mother and father. Same thing with all of the different breeds of dog, they're all genetically compatible.
...but that's not really what speciation is. Speciation is the development of new species through evolutionary processes. As with your dog example, different breeds are just groups within species. Evolution ("Macro" evolution) is: When a human and a human have a child, somewhere down the line the result will not be a human and not be able to reproduce with humans, sharing different genetic material than its species.
The key phrase here is "down the line". What you term "macroevolution" is simply microevolution across many generations, and it is probably closer to what speciation really is, which we have observed. There is no distinction in science between macro- and micro-evolution. Evolution (macro) is a theory, unobservable, unrepeatable, speculation, and extrapolation. :-)
Evolution is not mere speculation. It is a scientific theory: one that is substantiated by facts. Speculation does not involve considering factual evidence.
Consider FAQs about the theory of evolution from http://www.talkorigins.org/ for information regarding how evolution is observed.  |
3rd January 2003, 12:51 PM
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| | Join Date: 18th June 2002 Location: Appalachia, The Trail of Tears
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So, yes I do think it can be explained by "Evolutionary Science," and that part of "Evolutionary Science" is well within the bounds of what the Bible laid down :-)Shlomo! (Peace!)
So you agree with my premise... 
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3rd January 2003, 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by Mechanical Bliss
...but that's not really what speciation is. Speciation is the development of new species through evolutionary processes. As with your dog example, different breeds are just groups within species.
Ok, now we have a 3rd definition :-) Originally posted by Mechanical Bliss
The key phrase here is "down the line". What you term "macroevolution" is simply microevolution across many generations, and it is probably closer to what speciation really is, which we have observed. There is no distinction in science between macro- and micro-evolution.
Er, the fossil record does not support transitional forms. :-) We'd have a gradual change if that were the case. Instead, there are abrupt changes and "descendants" appearing out of nowhere before their "ancestors" disappear :-) Originally posted by Mechanical Bliss
Evolution is not mere speculation. It is a scientific theory: one that is substantiated by facts. Speculation does not involve considering factual evidence.
Microevolution is a scientific fact :-) It's repeatable, observable in a lab, and predictable.
Evolution on a macro scale has never been observed and it's not repeatable. Over 200 million generations of e coli bacteria have been grown in labs over the past, almost, century and have been encouraged to mutate. The results from this encouragement? Big e coli, small e coli, different-colored e coli: BUT still e coli :-) Originally posted by Mechanical Bliss Consider FAQs about the theory of evolution from http://www.talkorigins.org/ for information regarding how evolution is observed.
I have been at this site MANY times over the past few years, and I find a lot of it to be interesting, but still lacking. :-)
Shlomo! (Peace!) |
3rd January 2003, 12:58 PM
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Originally posted by Smilin So you agree with my premise...
Isn't that what I just said?
You seem stunned. Given your definitions, I agree.
Shlomo! (Peace!) |
4th January 2003, 09:03 AM
| | A REAL NICE GUY..!
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Originally posted by EPHRIAM777
[b]I believe the racial diversifications among humans would be microevolution. ))))))))))))
Right now there is only one race. There could have been more then one race in the past, but if there was they mated with each other to where science believes there is only one race today.
China does not agree, they are separatist. They believe they evolved from Peking man. But they do not have any evidence for this at all.
Eph writes...
Ahh..that lil "quote' you gave wasn't mine JR..
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4th January 2003, 09:07 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | [quote] Originally posted by LadyShea
[b]Eph, I haven't needed to provide any sources because I haven't made any claims.
Eph says..
Then don't ask me to give any...! ( boy your too easy LS ) 
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4th January 2003, 09:12 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | [quote] Originally posted by LadyShea
"Attack the messenger"? What message am I attacking you for...you haven't PRESENTED anything, all you have done is make assertions with no basis...you are entitled to state your opinions of course, but please qualify them as opinions as you have also been asked to do.
Eph says...
Is this your opinion LS..? You failed to "qualify" it as such IF it is...!
Mext time use " IMO " before you post it..
.Also you base this statement on what..?
(( See I can play "chase the tail" games with YOUR posts too ))
Never ending questions...that only lead to more questions..and denoucements..!  I win...!!!
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4th January 2003, 09:25 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally posted by Smilin [/i]
[b]Eph:
1. Please take time to learn the QUOTE commands, your posts are hard to read, and respond to. A simple, polite request.
Eph replies...
I know how to use it..I'm doing this on purpose...! Sorry if your having trouble with them...
Smilin says
...okay... are you gonna force me to drudge back through all your claims..(that we've consistently asked for sources/proofs of with) with only silence for you? For example... list your scientists we've asked for a number of times. Else conced you're merely stating an opinion and not facts.
Eph writes...
I see you STILL haven't had it sink in yet...So once again I'mm drudge through this for ya...For example...I said the dating systems used to date the age of the earth..or rocks...or bones are ALL FLAWED...I don't need a "scientist" to know that...Nor do you need a scientists name for a source...Your askig the wrong question here Smilin...Your next move on this "chess board"...Is to present evidence why you think they ARE good dating systems....Then we go from there....I'll blow you out of the water WHEN you make your next move..and DO that...
See I laid the foundation of a challenge to you and your EVO position...by making a statement..Now you gotta do one of two things...Either defend YOURSELF and what you DO believe about EVO....Or accept the "check mate"....and fold...!
The rest of this post was just more.."tap dancing"....Endless words that SOUND great...but avoid the issue...
Again.....The dating systems used in dating the age of the earth ect ect ect ..are FLAWED systems and NOT valid....! Therefore the LIFE that exists on this planet..didn't have the VAST amounts of TIME that Evolution says is required for things to have Evolved...!
Your move Smilin...!
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4th January 2003, 09:31 AM
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I see you STILL haven't had it sink in yet...So once again I'mm drudge through this for ya...For example...I said the dating systems used to date the age of the earth..or rocks...or bones are ALL FLAWED... Again.....The dating systems used in dating the age of the earth ect ect ect ..are FLAWED systems and NOT valid....!
How are they flawed? Could it be that you don't understand them? YES.
Again you have no idea what you are talking about. Don't you think if they were flawed they would stop using them? YES. And if you think there flawed prove it.
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4th January 2003, 09:40 AM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | Evolution says things took vast amounts of time to evolve...Geology says that the EARTH is very old...Science says the Cosmos is "billions" of years old...
So each (knowingly or unknowinly )... are working hand in hand to defend each others position...!
BASED on what..?
See I believe the Earth can be very old....BUT the animals that are on it now...haven't changed or "evolved" at all....They have gone through some variation changes..hight...color..weight...BUT they have NOT changed from what they originally were...a DOG is still a DOG...a CAT is still a CAT...ect ect..!
Evolution says they HAVE changed..and Evo People (lol)...claim they have proof that must be out there...somewhere..just around the next bend...over that next rise...around that next corner..under that next rock..
They are willing to follow their "carrot" anywhere it leads them..except to the Biblical record...!
Because THAT means someone MADE all this and He's in charge and NOT them...( or Steven Hawking )...
Did you know that Carl Sagan NOW knows Jesus Christ is really who he said he was....!
YEP.. I have proof of that.....AND you can dig that truth out of THE rock..that was on a hillside..
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The more you increase the circumference of your Biblical knowledge...You soon become aware of how little you actually know...!
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