Strongest post trib proof I've seen so far.

Love321 · #**281** 1st August 2006, 06:23 PM

Revelations 7: 13 - 14 and one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? And whence came they?

The answer?

14. And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me..... These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

This is another proof that the Church.... is in Heaven, not upon earth.... Why?

John does not recognize this group.
He knows the raptured Church in Heaven (Rev.4, verse 1), but not the ones on earth in this text.
These are Tribulation Saints, who have washed their robes and made them white, in the blood of the Lamb.

Please hear God once again; These are they that came out of the Great Tribulation..

That settles it and explains why John- who recognized the Church in Heaven- DOES NOT RECOGNIZE these individuals.
They are new brothers and sisters in Christ...... though unknown to John..

GOD BLESS
LOVE321

Love321 · #**282** 1st August 2006, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by applepowerpc

How do you figure?

Sure sounds good in theory, though--believers get raptured from the earth, their absence precipitates the Tribulation. Makes sense. It's just not in the Bible.

Caught up is in the Bible. We refer to it as Rapture.............but the idea of being caught up comes from scripture.

jeffweeder · #**283** 1st August 2006, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by Love321

Sure sounds good in theory, though--believers get raptured from the earth, their absence precipitates the Tribulation. Makes sense. It's just not in the Bible.

Caught up is in the Bible. We refer to it as Rapture.............but the idea of being caught up comes from scripture.

And what gave birth to the idea of a rapture was the ressurection. Why not drop the word rapture altogether, and just say ressurection?

for the dead in christ will rise first, then we who are alive will be raptured.....with them....to meet and always be with the lord....

I will raise you the last day.... Why is it the last day?
Because heaven and earth pass away but my word will not pass away.

This is why Peter in 2 pet3 , is LOOKING FOR A NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.
For the day of the lord will come like a theif, IN WHICH THE HEAVEN WILL BE DISSOLVED AND THE EARTH WILL BE BURNED UP.
Seeing as we are looking for these things, WHAT KIND OF PERSON OUGHT YOU TO BE.....

WayWord · #**284** 1st August 2006, 08:22 PM

Get a Strong's Concordance and look up all the verses concerning trumpets, olive trees, and witnesses. The Word of Yahweh God itself will enlighten you as no commentary written by man ever will.

Love321 · #**285** 1st August 2006, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by jeffweeder

And what gave birth to the idea of a rapture was the ressurection. Why not drop the word rapture altogether, and just say ressurection?

for the dead in christ will rise first, then we who are alive will be raptured.....with them....to meet and always be with the lord....

I will raise you the last day.... Why is it the last day?
Because heaven and earth pass away but my word will not pass away.

This is why Peter in 2 pet3 , is LOOKING FOR A NEW HEAVEN AND NEW EARTH.
For the day of the lord will come like a theif, IN WHICH THE HEAVEN WILL BE DISSOLVED AND THE EARTH WILL BE BURNED UP.
Seeing as we are looking for these things, WHAT KIND OF PERSON OUGHT YOU TO BE.....

The BIBLE IS OLDER THAN YOU.

IT HAS ROOTS.

Love321 · #**286** 1st August 2006, 08:29 PM

RAPTURE, IS THE WORD RAPTURE IN THE BIBLE...? (No)

Rapture means to be “Caught Up”
St. Jerome; who did the Latin Vulgate for the Roman Catholic Church.
Centuries ago used the word Rapture.
He used the Latin ‘Lapiamor’ for it
I Thessalonians 4:17
Where it says ‘caught up.’
So the word has been around for a long time.
And can be attributed to Catholic Teaching.

What is Rapture?

It is the literal, visible, bodily coming of Christ.

‘In the Clouds.’

*Not to earth yet.... ‘In the clouds’.

Those who are prepared and those who were prepared.
The dead and the living..

Thessalonians 4:16
The Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout
‘Come up Hither’.

Actually the word rapture means ‘Lapiamore’ – ‘caught up’
*Latin vulgate.

As we are Raptured our Bodies become Glorified and made like unto Jesus Christs Glorified Body. Philippians 3:21.

1 John 3:2 We shall be like him.

THIS MEANS WE GET A NEW BODY..................WITHOUT SPOT, BLEMISH OR WRINKLE................

jeffweeder · #**287** 1st August 2006, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by Love321

The BIBLE IS OLDER THAN YOU.

IT HAS ROOTS.

Yes
God's Final Word in His Son
1 God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
2 in[1][Or at the end of these days ] these last days has spoken to us in[2][Lit in Son; or in the person of a Son] His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world[3][Lit ages ].
3 And[4][Lit Who being ] He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds[5][Lit upholding ] all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high,
4 having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.

frankDH · #**288** 1st August 2006, 11:19 PM

Originally Posted by nplidad

Yes everyone in verse four has been resurrected. For they are all in there glorified bodies.

4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

But there is a little rule of grammar that gives us the answer. The rest of the dead grammatically is defined by going back to its nearest antecedant! And that antecedant is the second groupJOhn saw. these are 2 seperate groups of people one who are already areon thrines (could be the 24 elders or the 12 sons of Israel and the 12 apostles) then there are a second group--these were beheaded and made alive-- the first resurrection refers to the ones beheaded andn not the ones alrready on thrones.

The elders were seated way back in the beginning of Revelation. And the last antecedent is “they”, who are identified as those who rule for 1000 years. Everyone in verse 4 reigns for a 1000 years and are resurrected before the rest of the dead.

Originally Posted by nplidad

Well then let us be faithful to the word of God and not opinions. Normal beleivers are not promised thrones-- tehy are promised robes and stephanos crowns (not diadem crowns). So if you are not one of hte elect small group called to sit on thrones and you are not one of the beheaded ones then you are not part of the first resurrection. You accuse me of playing with the math but I am just showing what eh bible says. You aren't promised a throne frank and if you die before the antichrist reigns-- you are not part of the first resurrection-- ir you are show me on the basis of the berse that describes those involved in the first resurrection (but remember the ones ont he thrones are not part of the first resurrection)

Is there a promise of a throne for you in this verse?

Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Originally Posted by nplidad

And I did not ignore the truth that there are people resurrected before the event called the first resurrection
but to just blanket them in because it is called the first resurrection is not good exegesis and hermeneutics.

I use first resurrection before another because the bible does that is why.

It is your misinterpretation of things that says it. Not scripture.

[quote=nplidad]
As far as first resurrection numerically-- wqe all know it is not the first-- butr as I said the bible calls it the first and specifically lists the ones involved inthe first resurrection. And even using yu rimproper grouping- you exlcude hundreds of millions of saints who were not beheaded for refusiong ole 666 and who are not ruling onthrones! I accept the bibles call eventhough I do not fully understand the wehy of this being called the first resurrection when others were raised before. The biblke doesn't declare why and I am careful in offering my opinions.

That is just like saying my ignorance is all the proof I need.

Originally Posted by nplidad

yes we co reign with Christ thatr is not in question but there are at most only 24 thrones besides Gods in heaven. Reigniong with Christ does nto require a throne.

See above

Frank

safswan · #**289** 2nd August 2006, 12:18 AM

Originally Posted by inhisdebt

ASV REV 5v7. And he came, and he taketh it out of the right hand of him that sat on the throne.
8. And when he had taken the book, the four living creatures and the four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having each one a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9. And they sing a new song, saying, Worthy art thou to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou was slain, and didst purchase unto God with thy blood men of every tribe, and tongue, and people, and nation,
In case you didnt Know to purchase is to redeem And (they) is the 4 beasts and the 24 elders.Please stop butchering the word of God. And the interpritter for the KJV was Killed for it, I think ill take the word of the marter first thank you.

I percieve a little problem here.Are you saying the beasts were redeemed also?Could you explain?

safswan.

inhisdebt · #**290** 2nd August 2006, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by safswan

I percieve a little problem here.Are you saying the beasts were redeemed also?Could you explain?

safswan.

Not really, you pulled this from a post that was several months old, and i can no longer remember the contention i was arguing about. If im not mistaken the claim was made that the 24 elders were angels or some form of God like entity and my contention was that they represented they represented saints.